Birth parents help!?

[Zoe44]

Hi please would anyone be able to help me trace my 2nd great grandfathers birth records/parents as I'm really struggling!?

I think he was born Alfred Allen around 1852 in Worcester St Martin.

He was known as Frederick Allen by friends and family and also used Frederick on his census returns from 1881 though to 1911.   

He married Charlotte Lamb (late Marshall) in Southwark March 1875.

It's only since finding his marriage banns did I realise he was Alfred Allen and showing father as Thomas Allen but I'm struggling to find any other family records for him.

I wonder If any once could help?!

Hope that all makes sense!  thanks Zoe x

 

[Dundee]

For anyone helping - father Thomas' occupation is 'Smith', Alfred is an Engineer, and the witnesses are Annie ALLEN and John NOBLE.

Debra 

[Zoe44]

For anyone helping - father Thomas' occupation is 'Smith', Alfred is an Engineer, and the witnesses are Annie ALLEN and John NOBLE.

Debra 

Thank you Debra! 😊

[Yegvard]

Hi Zoe,

This may not help.

If you try FamilySearch (search parameters: Alfred;ALLEN;Worcestershire;1850-1855 with all boxes left unchecked) then a number of possible characters turn up.  Among these is a "Thomas Alfred ALLEN" - St. Peter, Worcester.  There's a christening  as well as the GRO birth index.

If you think it's worth pursuing then the mother's maiden name can be found on the government's website https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

You don't need to purchase a certificate to see the index, but you will need to register.

Cheers

Mike

[Kay99]

I wonder if you might be onto something Mike 

When searching I initially ignored this birth/christeniing  as the father is listed as Edwin (and mother Harriet) as his father was listed as Thomas on the marriage cert.    Stressing this is only speculation -  looking for Edwin I found this possible one  born 1828 St Martin's  Worcester https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGC2-HSB with a possible marriage to Harriet Osborn in 1851  which matches the mothers maiden name of the GRO Birth Index. 

Family Search has a burial of an Edwin Allen   Age 26  4 Jun 1854  St. Pauls, Worcester.   If his father had died shortly after his birth Thomas Alfred Allen and his  mother possibly  remarried he might not have remembered his father      I can only see one other birth/baptism with the same surname and mother's maiden name - Harriet b March Qtr 1854 Worcester but there is a possible death in the next qtr

This could be Harriet Osborn in 1851 in St Martins https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBP-2MZ    Can't find her post 1851 at the moment 

Kay

[DCB]

I think Harriet married William Tobey in Whittington on 17th May 1857.

She is a widow in 1861 - no Allen children.
Harriet Tobey Head Widow 1805 Pasteboard Box Maker b Painswick, Gloucestershire.
Henry Tobey Son Unmarried 1843 Attorneys General Clerk -
Susan Tobey Daughter Unmarried 1845 Pasteboard Box Maker -
Jane Tobey Daughter Unmarried 1849 Scholar

David

P.S. - I think this is more likely to be Harriet in 1861

1861 Census - Waterloo Street, St Peter, Worcester

Jones Higgs Head Married 1840
Emily Higgs Wife Married Female 22 1839
Harriet Toby Sister Married Female 31 1830 Gloveress
Thomas Toby Nephew 1852 Scholar
William Toby Nephew 1858 Scholar (mmn as Allen in GRO)
John Toby Nephew 1861 (mmn as Osment? in GRO)

[Zoe44]

Thankyou for all your thoughts..
I think Thomas alfred Allen could be a possibility 😊

[philipsearching]

(this reply was originally posted on the thread on the Beginners board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=801638)


GRO has only five even remotely possible births registered in Worcester from 1837 to 1860 (using fuzzysearch):
Sep qtr 1846 Worcester vol 18 p539 ALLEN Alfred George mmn CLARK
Dec qtr 1846 Worcester vol 18 p542 ALLEN Alfred mmn LEIGHT
Mar qtr 1852 Worcester vol 6c p282 ALLEN Thomas Alfred mmn OSBORN
Mar qtr 1855 Worcester vol 6c p284 ALLEN George Alfred mmn TUSTIN
Dec qtr 1858 Worcester vol 6c p277 ALLEN Frederick mmn HAMPTON

If we go with the Thomas Alfred registered in 1852 FreeBMD has a vaguely possible marriage:
Sep qtr 1846 London City vol 2 p165 on same page ALLEN Thomas, OSBORNE Sarah (and others)

BUT - if there was a Miss OSBORN who married someone else first and was widowed before marrying Thomas Allen this could be a red herring!

Unfortunately, I haven't managed to match Alfred/Fred/Frederick/Thomas(??) with father Thomas to a census in England/Wales 1861-1871 yet.

Philip

(ADDED) FamilySearch has a baptism 31 Jan 1854 All Saints Worcester Edward ALLEN son of Thomas and Catherine.  Coincidence or kinship?

[DCB]

Harriet Osborne married Edwin Allen in Worcester Distict Q2 1851.

She then married William Tobey in Whittington on 17th May 1857, with her surname given as Allen or Osborne.

Thomas, born in 1852, is on the 1861 census as Thomas Toby. They are living with Harriett's sister, Emily Osborne, who married Lewis Higgs on 5th March 1860. Her father is given as Thomas Osborne. Lewis is transcribed as Jones.

Thomas may be nothing to do with Frederick unless, as suggested, he didn't know the name of his father, although his grandfather was Thomas. I can't find any further references to the Toby/Tobey family, except for William born in 1858, who is on the 1871 census.

David