James Cabble

[JamesDMcBust]

Hi
On the Somerset Online Parish Clerks website, under marriages I recently found a James CABBLE marrying a Mary Hatcher at St Mary Magdalene Church in Keinton Mandeville on 27/1/1788.

At the same church under baptisms I found lots of Cabbles, many of which I have in my tree. There are several baptisms of children to a James & Mary Cabble (sometimes spelt Cabell). These baptisms were 1816 (John), 1818 (James), 1820 (William), 1822 (Jemima) and 1825 (Anne).

I cannot slot this couple or indeed the children into my tree as the dates don't stack up.

I can only find a couple of contenders:  James* Cabble born 1747 in Somerton (to John Cabble & Rachel Doverty) and James Cabble (there are two baptised) born 1792 and 1794 in KM to John* Cabble and Mary Webley. These two are brothers.

James Cabble b.1747 is too old to be father to the children born from 1816 onwards
James Cabble b. 1792/1794 - could be the father to these children , but are too young to be the couple married on 27/1/1788.  That James would need to be born 1740s/50s/60s so the married James & Mary could be one of these two.


I'm getting very confused and I would be grateful for anyone's thoughts on where I go from here>

[philipsearching]

.....I recently found a James CABBLE marrying a Mary Hatcher at St Mary Magdalene Church in Keinton Mandeville on 27/1/1788.
At the same church under baptisms I found lots of Cabbles, many of which I have in my tree. There are several baptisms of children to a James & Mary Cabble (sometimes spelt Cabell). These baptisms were 1816 (John), 1818 (James), 1820 (William), 1822 (Jemima) and 1825 (Anne).

The 1851 census has HO107/1926/136 p22 Keinton Mandeville
CABBLE James, Head, 59, Farmer's labourer, born Keinton Mandeville, Somerset
CABBLE Mary, Wife, 63, born Chilthorne, Somerset
CABBLE John, Son, unm, 34, Teazle grower, born Keinton Mandeville, Somerset
CABBLE Ann, Daughter, unm, 25, Dressmaker, born Keinton Mandeville, Somerset

This gives approximate birth years for James c1892 and Mary c1888 and opens up the possibility that James and Mary were married in or near Chilthorne. (It also rules out this wife Mary as being HATCHER)

The approx. birth year would fit James, son of John CABBLE and Mary WEBLEY.

ADDED (from FreeReg)
marriage 4 Dec 1815 Chilthorne Domer - St Mary: James CABBELL of Keinton Mandefield to Mary SMITH, by licence.  Witnesses Sarah CABBELL and William CHISLETT.

Philip

[JamesDMcBust]

Thank you for your thoughts Philip. The only bit that still doesn't fit is that whilst I can find Anne Cabble on the parish records baptism at KM in 1825, for the year 1818 there is a John Cabble baptised but parents are John Cabble and Hannah. However in  the same year a James and Mary Cabble baptised a JAMES Cabble. If the census says born KM then surely it should be there.

Still unsure.

James

[philipsearching]

Thank you for your thoughts Philip. The only bit that still doesn't fit is that whilst I can find Anne Cabble on the parish records baptism at KM in 1825, for the year 1818 there is a John Cabble baptised but parents are John Cabble and Hannah. However in  the same year a James and Mary Cabble baptised a JAMES Cabble. If the census says born KM then surely it should be there.

Still unsure.

James

Hmmmm - James or John?  I double-checked the image of the 1851 census on Anc**** and it very clearly says John, 34.

I'm concerned about the two baptisms for John CABBLE: son of John (yeoman) and Hannah in 1816 and son of John (pauper) and Hannah 1818 (I can't find a burial between 1816 and 1818) so I am wondering if there was an error in the transcript.

Very odd.

Philip

[JamesDMcBust]

Would this be something to take up with the transcriber of the parish record for these James Cabbles?

[philipsearching]

Would this be something to take up with the transcriber of the parish record for these James Cabbles?

The transcriptions are accurate (bang goes that idea!).  I found the images on Anc***** (I only looked between 1815 and 1825)

28 Apr 1816 John, son of John (yeoman) and Hannah
28 Apr 1816 Eliza, daughter of James (yeoman) and Mary
13 Sep 1818 James, son of James (yeoman) and Mary
29 Nov 1818 John, son of John (pauper) and Hannah
28 May 1820 William, son of James (yeoman) and Mary
10 Feb 1822 Oliver, son of John (labourer) and Hannah
25 Dec 1822 Jemima, daughter of James (yeoman) and Mary
8 Apr 1824 Michael, son of Jno (labourer) and Hannah
4 Sep 1825 Ann, daughter of James (labourer) and Mary


So, where is the baptism for John, son of James and Mary c1816-1817? 
Was there a transcription error?  No - the writing in the parish register is clearly legible.
Did James and Mary not baptise John?  Very unlikely.
Did the parish clerk have an off-day and mistakenly switch the parents for the 28 Apr 1816 baptisms? I'm clutching at straws with this idea!

I'm still trying to find the CABBLE families on the 1841 census, but no luck yet.


Philip

[JamesDMcBust]

Could this be the family on the 1841 census?  The dobs more or less match.  I believe Pendomer is near Chilthorne Domer where they were married.

John Cabbell
England and Wales Census, 1841
Event Place: Pendomer, Somerset, England
Residence Note:
Pendomer

Page Number: 15
Registration Number: HO107
Piece/Folio: 946/2
Affiliate Record Type: Household

James Cabbell, Male, 50-54, Somerset

Mary Cabbell, Female, 50-54, Somerset

John Cabbell, Male, 25-29, Somerset

James Cabbell, Male, 21-25, Somerset

Wm Cabbell, Male, 20-24, Somerset




Annmaria Cabbell, Female, 15-19, Somerset

[DRH123]

John and Hannah Cabble are at Longburton in Dorset in 1841, with children John 20, Jane 16, Michael 12 and Emley 5.

I think there is a very good chance that the vicar got muddled when the cousins John and Eliza were baptised on the same day in 1816 and switched the parents, as you suggest. John and Hannah having a son John two years later supports that. For further confirmation it would be nice to trace Eliza, but I can't see her.

As for the wedding at Chilthorne Domer, the vicar recorded the bride as Mary Naish but she signed her own name as Mary Nash. Smith in the FreeREG transcription is a misreading of Naish.

David

[JamesDMcBust]

Thanks for your contribution. I'm inclined to agree with you that the vicar muddled up the parents.
So that connects John Cabble to his rightful parents but if we go back to my original posting I still have a few unanswered questions :-

Who are the parents of the JAMES CABBLE who married Mary Hatcher at Keinton Mandeville church on 27/1/1788?  And did they have any children?

And, also on the Somerset online parish register, a John and Mary Cabble baptise a James Cabble on 12/1/1792, and, a John and Mary Cable Baptist a James Cable on 12/3/1794.  I have always assumed this is the same couple, just with different spelling, but if it is I have expected to find a death for the first one, and can't at Keinton Mandeville. 

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on this ?