Author Topic: Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941  (Read 1902 times)

Offline advent

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Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941
« on: Thursday 11 October 18 22:46 BST (UK) »
Can some kind Roots Chat collague please help.  I am seeking some records on a Joseph (Joe) Ward born groarty Derry/Londonderry in 1883. The name of his wife was Mary. We believe that two of his daughters may have been killed in Clydebank by bombing raid in 1941 and this was a big news story in the local papers at that time. Any info would be much appreciated. Regards

Online Forfarian

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Re: Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 October 18 08:55 BST (UK) »
Clydebank is in the historic county of Dunbarton. There is only one death of a female surnamed Ward in Dunbartonshire in 1941, and she was aged 65 (so too old to be Joseph's daughter) and died in Row.

There are only 10 deaths in Lanarkshire next door of female Wards aged under 40, and only two of those are more than 10 years old. They died in different districts, neither anywhere near Clydebank.

Do you know the names of any of Joseph's children? When and where were they born? Have you looked at www.scotlandspeople and/or www.irishgenealogy.ie ? Is Groarty the place where Joseph was born, or did he change his name from Groarty to Ward? (There are no Groarty deaths in Scotland in 1941.)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 October 18 16:31 BST (UK) »
The civilian list of casulties from the Clydebank bombing is given here
www.tommckendrick.com/code/casualties1.html

A possibility that Joseph and Mary's daughters were married and would show under their married surnames, however, Forfarian's analysis of Ward deaths doesn't make it likely as wives would be indexed with both surnames.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941
« Reply #3 on: Friday 12 October 18 16:39 BST (UK) »
I have now had time to look at the 1883 birth and Joseph Ward was born at Groarty, Londonderry on 21 January 1883, parents Thomas Ward, labourer, and Catherine Clifford.

Joseph Ward, son of Thomas Ward, labourer, married Mary McGurk on 27 August 1911 in Belfast. Joseph's address was given as Clydebank. So I think that must be the right Joseph Ward. There are no births of Ward with mother's surname McGurk in the GRONI online births index.

So it's reasonable to suppose that his family were born in Clydebank. However although the marriage was Catholic, there are no matching baptisms on Scotland's People.

There are lots of Ward births registered in Old Kilpatrick after 1911.

There are deaths of several Wards, mother's maiden surname McGurk. However there was a marriage of a Patrick Ward to a Lizzie McGurk in Blantyre in 1907 so without looking at the certificates it isn't possible to say that all these are the children of Joseph Ward and Mary McGurk.
Catherine, 63, 1974, Culross (birth 1910/1911) no matching birth in O/K
Elizabeth, 54, 1977, Old Kilpatrick (1922/1923) matched by a birth in O/K in 1922
Mary Catherine, 70, 1983, Old Kilpatrick (1912/1913) matched by birth in O/K in 1913
Annie, 64, 1985, Old Kilpatrick (1920/1921) matched by a birth in O/K in 1920
Sarah Jane, 69, 1987, Motherwell and Wishaw (1917/1918) no matching birth in O/K
Joseph Thomas, 76, 1991, Old Kilpatrick (1914/1915) matched by birth in O/K in 1915
There is a Sarah Jane Ward born in Dalziel in 1918 but there is no Catherine Ward in 1910/1911 in either Blantyre or Dalziel.

So if we assume that the four who died in Old Kilpatrick are children of Joseph Ward and Mary McGurk, and that the apparent matching births are correct, this means there were children born in 1913, 1915, 1920 and 1922. So there are gaps in 1916/1919 and after 1922 when there could have been one or two more children.

Unfortunately to get significantly further with this family you would need to go, or get someone to go on your behalf, to a Scotland's People Centre.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline MonicaL

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Re: Joseph (Joe) Ward Clydebank 1941
« Reply #4 on: Friday 12 October 18 16:43 BST (UK) »
Apologies, Forfarian...I did go back and edit my post to make more sense!

Monica  :)
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Offline advent

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joseph ward & Mary McGurk clydebank 1924/30
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 22:02 BST (UK) »
could some kind roots chat collague pleas help me to find two girls born to Joe Ward and Mary McGurk in Clydeband 1924/30 Thank you

Offline Rosinish

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Re: joseph ward & Mary McGurk clydebank 1924/30
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 22:09 BST (UK) »
2 possible deaths although I haven't checked for marriages;

WARD ELIZABETH 54 (b c1923)
MCGURK (mms)
1977
506/ 271 Old Kilpatrick
   
WARD ANNIE 64 (b c1921)
MCGURK (mms)
1985
506/ 481
Old Kilpatrick

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: joseph ward & Mary McGurk clydebank 1924/30
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 22:16 BST (UK) »
I should have added, there's no way of telling the parents names for births in that period.

It's also not permitted to name living/possible living people.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

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Re: joseph ward & Mary McGurk clydebank 1924/30
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 17 October 18 22:37 BST (UK) »
Previous thread on the same family

topics merged
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.