Thomas Thomas

[gnorman]

Ladyhawk, I didn't have any information on Lot's first wife but everything here seems to fit. I did not have any of that census information and will order the death certificate for Mary Ellen Thomas tonight.

All of the later information about the marriage of Tom Thomas and Margaret matches with what I have (though I was unsure at first as he is listed as a Calenderer; my logic now is that perhaps he took over from his father in law who is listed as a carter on the marriage certificate).

I'm not sure about the 1901 census for Tom Thomas; that would make him alive and well and Margaret a bigamist as shes listed herself as a Widow but I know that did happen sometimes didnt it and I can not see a death that matches him anywhere.

Thank you all for your help; another treasure trove delivered by the Rootschatter : )

[Ladyhawk]

I did not have any of that census information and will order the death certificate for Mary Ellen Thomas tonight.

All of the later information about the marriage of Tom Thomas and Margaret matches with what I have (though I was unsure at first as he is listed as a Calenderer; my logic now is that perhaps he took over from his father in law who is listed as a carter on the marriage certificate).

I'm not sure about the 1901 census for Tom Thomas; that would make him alive and well and Margaret a bigamist as shes listed herself as a Widow but I know that did happen sometimes didnt it and I can not see a death that matches him anywhere.

Please come back and let us know how you get on with Mary’s d/c.

Margaret Thomas didn't marry Lot Butterworth until 1906 .

Have you found Margaret Thomas on 1901 census noted as a widow?

Could this be a possibility

Death Jun 1905    Thomas   Thomas   age 53   Oldham   8d   461

[gnorman]

Hi, I received Mary Ellen Thomas' death certificate today;

Mary Ellen Thomas aged 17 of 30 Jackson Street Oldham, died October 19th 1890, Occupation: Cotton reeler, daughter of Thomas Thomas. Cause of Death Heart Disease. Reported by Margaret Thomas of 30 Jackson Street. Reported on 30th October 1890.

The correct Mary Ellen - thank you all for this great success in bringing Mary's story back in to the light. I've been trying to check the Oldham Cemeteries online but so far I cannot find her burial.

I have sent for the death certificate you pointed out for Thomas Thomas Ladyhawk, I'll let you know when it comes in.

Thank you all!

[Ladyhawk]

Hi, I received Mary Ellen Thomas' death certificate today;

Mary Ellen Thomas aged 17 of 30 Jackson Street Oldham, died October 19th 1890, Occupation: Cotton reeler, daughter of Thomas Thomas.
Cause of Death Heart Disease.
Reported by Margaret Thomas of 30 Jackson Street.
Reported on 30th October 1890.

The correct Mary Ellen - thank you all for this great success in bringing Mary's story back in to the light.

Thank you for letting us know and glad that it was the correct death certificate for their daughter Mary Ellen. 1891 census (posted) Thomas, Margaret & dau Emily Thomas were living in Jackson Street.

I've been trying to check the Oldham Cemeteries online but so far I cannot find her burial.

I think I've found her burial 

B/C Number   30060
Burial Date   01/11/1890
Mary E Thomas Age   17 Years
Address   3 Jackson St; Oldham
Cemetery   Greenacres
Section   B4
Grave   177

I wonder if this is the burial details for the death entry 1905 for Thomas Thomas I posted

B/C Number   4756
Burial Date   29/06/1905
Thomas Thomas Age 53 Years
Address   Boston St; Oldham
Cemetery   Hollinwood
Section   K14
Grave   167

I searched here http://apps1.oldham.gov.uk/bacasweb/GenSearch.aspx

[Ladyhawk]

I'm wondering if they had another daughter and she died in infancy

THOMAS, MARGARET  mmn MATTINSON     
1877  J Quarter in OLDHAM  Volume 08D  Page 696

B/C Number   13853
Burial Date   03/05/1877
Margaret Thomas age 1 month
Address   1 Jackson St; Oldham
Cemetery   Greenacres
Section   K1
Grave   31

Edit:- a possibility for Thomas' wife Margaret (nee Mattison)

B/C Number   64665
Burial Date   23/12/1920
Margaret Butterworth age 69
Address   8 Robson St; Oldham
Cemetery   Greenacres
Section   H1b
Grave   98 (by clicking on grave number it gives further info. as follows)

Greenacres   H1b   98   23/12/1920   1   Margaret Butterworth   
Greenacres   H1b   98   29/01/1924   2   Albert Jones   
Greenacres   H1b   98   13/11/1926   3   Harry Butterworth   
Greenacres   H1b   98   14/05/1947   4   Robert Jones   
Greenacres   H1b   98   24/02/1949   5   Emily Jones

(all Jones' have same address possibly Margaret's daughter Emily's age  at death 68 (born c1880) - and Emily had a son named Albert and remarried a Robert Jones - you would need to double check)

[gnorman]

Thank you Ladyhawk, i'm going to try the local records centre to see if i can locate any gravestone and to see who is buried alongside them. There cant be many Thomas Mattison births in Oldham can there? I'll order the certificate on payday to be certain.

On Mary Ellen's death certificate I thought cotton reeler may be her occupation as she was 17?

Really appreciate this help. Thanks x

[Ladyhawk]

On Mary Ellen's death certificate I thought cotton reeler may be her occupation as she was 17?

Yes that would be correct  have edited my post to delete

[gnorman]

Ladyhawk, the grave for Margaret is correct, I already had this information. Robert and Emily were my great grandparents and Albert was their son. I dont know exactly who Harry was.

My grandad and mother were also born at 8 Robson street but sadly the house no longer exists.

Can the other graves be checked the same way to tell us who else is buried beside Mary, young Margaret and Thomas? If not i've been advised to plan a trip to Hollinwoid Crematorium to have a look there x

[gnorman]

Ladyhawk I've spoken to the records office and both Mary Ellen and Thomas Thomas are buried in public graves which i'm guessing means they couldnt afford to pay for the burials themselves sadly.