Thomas Cole Bethnal Green

[philipsearching]

I think a useful step would be to narrow down possible  regiments for Thomas COLE.  There are various lists to search on Anc***** - "Soldiers Died In The Great War" is useful, but not a complete record.  The Register of Soldiers' Effects is a possibility as it names next of kin (it lists 47 soldiers Thomas surname COLE, many of whom can be ruled out as other forenames don't match) - I'll try to look through that tonight.  If we can narrow down the possibles it would cut down the search.

Philip

[MaxD]

As I understand it, Thomas Cole survived the war so there would be no entry in the Effects Register or in Soldiers died....

It is also not clear when the gun carriage incident was supposed to have taken place.  The link with the baby is said to be 1914 or 1915 but then you ask "why was he shot so close to the end of the war".

It must be said, however brutal it sounds, that a soldier's record would not contain anything like the detail in the family story, at best only the fact of wounding would be recorded.  The unit war diary (but we don't know his unit) is also unlikely to have any record.

There also appears to be no POW record for him but if he was not held then there wouldn't be.

There is no Silver War Badge Record that can be identified as his.

There seems no reason why the enemy would go to the trouble of tying a man up just to shoot him.

As already established, his service record has not survived.  As disappointing as it may be, I doubt that, apart from maybe a regimental history (but we don't know his regiment), that there are any accounts that can confirm the details of the story.

Gloomy but realistic?

MaxD

[BB78]

I take it there’s no rhyme or reason as to what regiment someone might end up in?
I don’t suppose it helps at all but I know Thomas is listed as one of Michael Cole’s next of kin on his list of Soldier Effects and Thomas and Elizabeth got married on 18th May 1914 at St Paul’s, Old Ford and he gave his address as: 7 Ellesmere Road, I believe this is all in Bethnal Green.

Thank you for your help it’s very much appreciated.

[MaxD]

Assuming a volunteer enlistment before conscription in 1916 then the army did allow the man's choice to have some bearing on the regiment he joined, see:

.https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/

MaxD

[BB78]

As I understand it, Thomas Cole survived the war so there would be no entry in the Effects Register or in Soldiers died....

It is also not clear when the gun carriage incident was supposed to have taken place.  The link with the baby is said to be 1914 or 1915 but then you ask "why was he shot so close to the end of the war".

It must be said, however brutal it sounds, that a soldier's record would not contain anything like the detail in the family story, at best only the fact of wounding would be recorded.  The unit war diary (but we don't know his unit) is also unlikely to have any record.

There also appears to be no POW record for him but if he was not held then there wouldn't be.

There is no Silver War Badge Record that can be identified as his.

There seems no reason why the enemy would go to the trouble of tying a man up just to shoot him.

As already established, his service record has not survived.  As disappointing as it may be, I doubt that, apart from maybe a regimental history (but we don't know his regiment), that there are any accounts that can confirm the details of the story.

Gloomy but realistic?

MaxD

My question “why would he be shot so close to the end of the war” was before we realised the record that had been found was for his brother Herbert, so I’m back to thinking it did take place at the end of 1914/early 1915 again.
I’m desperately clingingly to the hope that some record exists but I understand it’s like looking for a needle in a haystack and I haven’t got the relevant information to go on and that’s without the fact that so many records were destroyed.  I would just really like to know what happened, even if it’s just an educated guess it fills in the blanks.

[philipsearching]

As I understand it, Thomas Cole survived the war so there would be no entry in the Effects Register or in Soldiers died....

You are right - I missed that! (note to self - pay attention, Philip!)

Unless there was a 'hun atrocity' story in the local papers I don't know what else to suggest.  (possibly on FindMyPest, but I don't have a sub at the moment).

Philip

[jim1]

Field punishment no.1 springs to mind. This was carried out following a Court Martial (British Army).
One man's account:
"When on parade for rifle inspection, after opening the bolts and closing them again the second time as it did not suit the officer the first time, I accidentally let off a round. I had to go before the CO and got No. 1 Field Punishment. I was tied up against a wagon by ankles and wrists for two hours a day, 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the afternoon in the middle of winter and under shellfire."

[MaxD]

Nothing on FindMyPast Philip.

I think we should have explained that there really is no type of service record that would have a detailed description of the type of incident, the details of which have been handed down (and parts of which you have already found aren't quite right). So it isn't really a needle in a haystack, there is no needle to be searched for.

Philip's thought that there might have been a newspaper report is a good one but I find nothing in the archive on Findmypast.  If you are local to Bethnal Green you might like to visit the local library to see local newspapers of the time.

Jim's explanation of FP No 1 perhaps illustrates how one incident can be conflated with another as the story passes down the generations.  Interesting that brother Herbert was sentenced to such a punishment in 1916 and again in 1917!!  He was also a POW.

MaxD

[BB78]

Assuming a volunteer enlistment before conscription in 1916 then the army did allow the man's choice to have some bearing on the regiment he joined, see:

.https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/

MaxD

Thanks for that.  I was wondering if perhaps they put family members together but seeing as Michael was in the Machine Gun Corps and Herbert the 14th Battalion Rifle Brigade I guess not. He had 3 other brothers who were old enough to serve, I think 1 was in the Navy though, I’m just trying to think if there are any other ways of identifying his regiment.

As I understand it, Thomas Cole survived the war so there would be no entry in the Effects Register or in Soldiers died....

You are right - I missed that! (note to self - pay attention, Philip!)

Unless there was a 'hun atrocity' story in the local papers I don't know what else to suggest.  (possibly on FindMyPest, but I don't have a sub at the moment).

Philip

This is what I was thinking; surely something like this made the papers but then my opinion is based on today’s standards, maybe this wasn’t an outrage during times of war? maybe it wasn’t picked up? maybe it was surpressed? maybe there’s more or less to the story?
I don’t know enough about the time to judge, the sort of circumstances that could lead to one soldier being chained up, shot and left for dead or how to go about searching for records of something that took place over 100 years ago. Everyone on here seems so helpful and knowledgable (as you all have been) that I thought I’d try taping some of that knowledge.

I’ve tried FindMyPest in the past and found it to be one of the most infuriating websites ever and still didn’t have any luck finding any matches.

Field punishment no.1 springs to mind. This was carried out following a Court Martial (British Army).
One man's account:
"When on parade for rifle inspection, after opening the bolts and closing them again the second time as it did not suit the officer the first time, I accidentally let off a round. I had to go before the CO and got No. 1 Field Punishment. I was tied up against a wagon by ankles and wrists for two hours a day, 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the afternoon in the middle of winter and under shellfire."

Yes that’s the kind of thing I was thinking (but my god that’s brutal) but my Mum is certain it wasn’t “us”, he was captured by the Germans and they shot him.
All I can think of is they either shot him because they’d captured him and then caught him trying to escape or when they captured him maybe he’d become detached from his unit somehow and was alone and rather than guard him or march him back to wherever they were keeping the other prisoners they decided to forgo the hassle and shoot him?