Author Topic: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s  (Read 724 times)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 21 October 18 23:05 BST (UK) »
Regarding the murder, that's probably Rahway, not Railway, as in Rahway, New Jersey. Maybe it happened there?

edited to add

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rahway_Murder_of_1887

Yes thank you - it was the Rahway, New Jersey, Murder. Jane Harris was insisting that the victim was her sister.  I have already found several articles about that. I'm really trying to find out what happened to Jane Harris and establish where she was living.

My initial request was regarding the area she gave as her address. I was trying to establish her circumstances during 1880s.

Looby :)

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Offline Erato

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 21 October 18 23:09 BST (UK) »
How about this Jane Harris in 1900?  She could have been lying about her age.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6QNS-SD3?i=3&cc=1325221
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr

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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 21 October 18 23:26 BST (UK) »
That is a possibility Erato.
She could easily knock 10 years off her age and pretend to be younger. The year of immigration -1880 - is a good match with previous info.

This lady states she was married for 25 years - if William had not long died that could be possible  :-\
And this lady states she has had two children - then in next column a figure 2 has been scored out? Does that mean the children are dead?
I only know of Thomas Murray , her son. Jane could have had another child - I have never found a trace of one.

But this gives me something to consider . Does the occupation say Nurse or None?

Looby :)

Added - Thank you, again Erato .

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 21 October 18 23:42 BST (UK) »
I have found Jane's date of birth on her baptism record on Scotlands People website where she is recorded as Jane Dormans. Her D.O.B is 3rd September 1846.

Thanks to all for their comments and help - I appreciate it.
Makes me think I might crack Jane and what happened to her yet.


Looby :)

Offline Erato

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #31 on: Monday 22 October 18 04:20 BST (UK) »
If you haven't already seen it, you can see the 1897 NY Herald article by searching for 'Harris Dorman Rahway' at:

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html

Numerous other articles also come up in the search.

The high point of the Herald article is a picture of Jane Harris which, I regret to say, is not flattering.   According to the article, she was "living temporarily at No. 326 West Fortieth Street" in Jul 1897.  It also says that William Harris died "about a year ago," which is to say in about July 1896.  It seems to confirm that Jane went by the name Jennie.  Several other addresses where she lived at one time or another are mentioned [she seems to have moved around a great deal].  It says she had two children, both dead.
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr

Offline Erato

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #32 on: Monday 22 October 18 06:06 BST (UK) »
An article from the Evening Telegram on 7 July 1897 [Rahway Murder Is Cleared Up] refers to "Mrs. William Harris of Oceanport, N.J., living temporarily at No. 323? West Fortieth Street this city [NYC]."  In this accounting of the murder, Mary was said to have traveled on the steamship 'Bolivia' carrying $2000 which was her part of her father's fortune. 

An article in the Herald on 9 July 1897 [Mary Dorman's Tragic Death], has an interview with Jane's sister Agnes who was living in Syracuse, NY and remarried to a guy named Charles Williams.

The other articles are worth reading, too, if you need more background.  They seem to confirm that, at the time of the murder, Jane Harris was living at 273 East 4th Street, NYC not on 14th Street.  It was the brother-in-law, Andrew Kirkwood, who lived on 14th Street in Jersey City, N.J.
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #33 on: Monday 22 October 18 08:17 BST (UK) »
Good morning
Thank you so much Erato - I have not seen these reports from 1897 before. I'm quite excited to get down to studying them fully later today.

I've had a quick look at the artist's impression of Jane and you are right - she looks like she's had a hard life. I wonder if she did have two children who died? Or if that is all part of her tale. Certainly her son Thomas is still alive and well in Scotland at this time - and doing quite well for himself , despite his poor start in life.

You have to wonder at Jane's motivation for her reappearance in 1897  - I suppose she was hoping to be paid for her interview?  She is certainly spinning a web of lies.  The sisters father never had a fortune  ;D He was a poor agricultural worker who died in 1864. And Mary Dorman never left Scotland !! She was still very much alive and kicking at the time of these articles.

I knew that Agnes Dorman Space remarried after the death of her husband . Charles Williams was a Scandanavian immigrant and they went on to have a family. Agnes gave birth very late in life. She was approx. 51 year old when she had her third child. 
I've been in touch a few years ago on this site (and on a thread relating to someone looking for info on Agnes) with a descendant of that third child.

Thanks again for finding these amazing articles. I'll have a better read later. But now Monday morning calls.......

Looby :)

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #34 on: Monday 22 October 18 10:45 BST (UK) »

And this lady states she has had two children - then in next column a figure 2 has been scored out? Does that mean the children are dead?

Looby :)


I can't get the image to load for me, but if the number is scored out, it might just mean that the enumerator was not supposed to ask that question if the woman was a widow, and someone "corrected" it.  I think I've seen this question handled that way for widows in other cases, but my exact memory is foggy. Check others in similar circumstances on the page or the pages before and after.

One of the posts mentioned an artist's sketch of Jane. That is about all you can hope for from the censuses - an artist's sketch. But sometimes the sketch tells you something you didn't know, in this case that she might have had another child.
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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: East 14th Street, New York in 1880s
« Reply #35 on: Monday 22 October 18 22:06 BST (UK) »
Thank you oldohiohome,

I will look for other widows on Census to compare with the entry for Jane Harris which Erato shared.

You are so correct about a Census entry being like a sketch of someone's life circumstances on a particular day. Of course, Census entries are only as accurate as the knowledge and honesty of the person supplying the info.

Looby