Author Topic: Paupers graves  (Read 2511 times)

Offline Colleen73

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Paupers graves
« on: Thursday 25 October 18 15:34 BST (UK) »
My grandad was buried in elswick cemetery Newcastle upon Tyne but his name doesn't come up when I insert it into find a grave, I've just found out he's in a unmarked paupers grave how do I find out where he is on the buried lay outs so I can put a headstone on x

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 October 18 15:57 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat
If you are trying to locate a grave within our cemeteries please contact us at bereavementservices@newcastle.gov.uk with the name of the deceased, date of death and if possible the cemetery they were buried in. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mwu/

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline josey

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 25 October 18 16:15 BST (UK) »
Welcome from me too.

I am sure you will find all the answers if you contact Stan's link.

My understanding is that a common, unpurchased grave belongs to the council who provided it; and as there are no doubt others buried in the same grave, a  headstone may not be appropriate. After 100 years the council can reuse or sell the grave [without disturbing the remains of the earlier burials of course].

Do let us know what you find out.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline TinaRoyal

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 25 October 18 16:53 BST (UK) »

“Public”, “Pauper” or “Common” Graves were owned by the Council, who decided who could be buried in them.  These were usually people who could not afford Family Graves.  “Public” Graves can have as many as 20 unrelated people buried in them.  No memorial, marker or headstone can be put on a “Public” Grave.

If you want to find out exactly where in the Cemetery your Grand-Father was buried, you need to search the “Register of Burials” at Elswick Cemetery.  That will give you the date of burial and the Grave Number, from which you can find its location.


Offline josey

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 25 October 18 17:47 BST (UK) »
No memorial, marker or headstone can be put on a “Public” Grave.
That's useful to know, thank you.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 25 October 18 17:58 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat from me too. :)

Newcastle library has the burial registers for Elswick.  Are you near there?

If not, and if you like I could look up his burial for you the next time I go to the library.  Just give his name and year/quarter of death date.
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 October 18 20:49 BST (UK) »
Hello Colleen

Regarding a Headstone, usually the owner of the Cemetery will be able to advise about their Communal Grave Rules and also provide you with the written Rules on the errection of a headstone or memorial, also if and where permissable and on what type of graves, along with their Admin Application Fee cost and also who they will permit to give you an estimate and do the work.

We used a reputable long standing Monumental Mason local to the cemetery and familiar with its Cemetery Rules to provide us with a price & costs breakdown.

Some Masons include the Admin Application Fee (ours was £140) on top of their costs, other Masons get you to pay it direct to the Cemetery Owner.

We had to have two specially machined stainless steel bars (that don't corrode like steel) concreted in, down about two feet in depth and that go up inside the headstone. The Plinth, Base and Headstone are specially machined to fit over the bars.

Ask to see the Cemetery Authority's current Rules and Charges too.

If you are permitted, but don't follow the Cemetery Rules as to how, where and what you can errect, some cemetery owners have certain rights regarding Headstones that don't conform.

If going on an actual grave, many insist on the grave reference number engraved at the base of the headstone, a very good idea when visiting any cemetery to see this was done.

One occasionally sees on a Headstone 'buried near this spot', or 'buried in this cemetery', suggesting that in the past, some cemeteries allowed headstones to be added later, or the exact grave location is not known.

Mark

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 27 October 18 15:56 BST (UK) »
It sounds as if it might be a problem - have you thought of possibly having a bench with a plaque to your grandad, engraved to state he was buried nearby, put in the cemetery (If the authority agrees, of course).
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline Blue70

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Re: Paupers graves
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 27 October 18 16:09 BST (UK) »
"Pauper" relates to the fact the parish paid for the burial. Paupers were buried in public graves but not all public graves were for pauper burials. With Public graves the family just paid for one burial place in the grave. Public graves were the most popular type of burial at one time and our ancestors did not consider this type of burial to be stigmatised in any way or necessarily reflective of social status. There's nothing wrong with unmarked graves in a cemetery and we shouldn't feel that we need to do something about them. Most cemeteries do not allow gravestones on public graves so it's something I wouldn't encourage people to pursue, certainly don't let it bother you.


Blue