Author Topic: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!  (Read 20819 times)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:20 GMT (UK) »
There was an American family called Betts who had a similar coat-of-arms.

They are on this page:
https://www.americanheraldry.org/heraldry-in-the-usa/roll-of-early-american-arms/b
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:23 GMT (UK) »
Got it! ;D ;D

BETTS.

Thomas Betts, from England 1639, founder of Guilford, Connecticut.

Anus — Sable, on a bend argent, three cinquefoils gules.

Crest — Out of a ducal coronet or, a buck's head gules attired or, collared argent.

N.B.
Gules = red
Or = gold
Attired = the stags horns
Argent = silver
Sable = black
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline hallmark

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:25 GMT (UK) »
There is something not quite right,the book was published 1872 but was gifted Christmas 1871.
Wonder how that could be.
Viktoria.


That is Santa at work!    ;D
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Offline davidbappleton

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:30 GMT (UK) »
It is a little tougher without knowing any of the colors.

On the assumption that the shield is correctly hatched (a system of varying lines to denote the colors), then the shield is sable, or black.

Looking up in Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials, and assuming the flowers on the bend are cinquefoils, we find the following:

Sable on a bend argent three cinquefoils gules (black shield, white bend, red flowers), for Betts and Dintres/Dyntres/Dyntees/Dyntrees/Dyntrey (these last are all probably spelling variants of the same name)

Sable on a bend argent three cinquefoils sable (black field, white bend, black flowers), for Berendon/Berondon

If the flowers are meant to be roses, then we have:

Sable on a bend argent three roses gules (black field, white bend, red roses), for Roos/Rosse/Roose/Rose, and Edward Smallwell, Bishop of St. David's 1783.

According to Fairbairn's Crests, the crest of A stag's head collared was borne by Stanley. (Which, alas, does not match any of the names we potentially found for the arms!)

Now, that said, I went and looked at some coats of arms as used in the United States, and found this:

Sable on a bend argent three cinquefoils (cited in Crozier's General Armory and Bolton's American Armory), and a related coat, Sable on a bend argent three cinquefoils gules all within a bordure engrailed argent (cited in Matthew's American Armoury and Blue Book and McKenzie's Colonial Families of the United States of America. Both of these coats of arms are associated with the crest Issuant from a ducal coronet or a buck's head gules attired or gorged argent, which design matches your illustration.

Both of these shields, and the crests, are all ascribed to the surname: Betts.

So, assuming that the shield is supposed to be black (and that is only an assumption right now), the shield and crest probably belong to someone in the Betts family, members of whom came to America at the latest before 1687, when Daniel Betts married Mary Fish in Newtown, Massachusetts Bay.

I hope that this information is helpful to you. If you have any questions about anything I've said here, or if I can be of further assistance, please let me know.

David


Offline Viktoria

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 21:50 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou davidbappleton and KGarrad.
I was searching for you to ask if you could help with this.
Viktoria.

Offline gcaso7176

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 00:33 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your incredible help!! This is more information than I ever expected to receive!! If I may ask some follow up questions, please.

What is argent, or, and NB?

So I guess the consensus is that this crest belongs to the Betts family? Where did you look up those details about the family themselves? It's just that, when I have a historical item and I know who/what family it belongs to, I like to know as much about them as possible so that I can know and appreciate them better.

Also, this may be a simple question, but can you please explain the parts of the coats of arms to me? Is the sable the diagonal line that the flowers are on? What are cinquefoil gules? What does "Issuant from a ducal coronet or a buck's head gules attired or gorged argent" mean? Is that quoted directly from the book? I apologize for the simple nature of these questions, but I am a newbie when it comes to this.

And also, the Betts family came to America before 1687, but at the very latest then, correct? Or is 1639 more accurate?

Any idea where I can find out more about the family, and can possible look for those two names I have so I can look for a link between the book itself and the family? Can you possibly make out the second name on that book inscription?

Thank you!!

Offline gcaso7176

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 00:50 GMT (UK) »
Also, the book was published in 1871! Here's a picture of the backside of the publication page.

Offline gcaso7176

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 01:11 GMT (UK) »
A quick Google search of "betts family" shows this link: https://www.billputman.com/Betts.pdf
Does this line up with the other history about the Betts who founded Guilford, Connecticut?

Many thanks, as always!

Offline gcaso7176

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 01:13 GMT (UK) »
Also, from the website http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Betts they mention the crest: "A Coat of Arms granted to a Betts family from Suffolk is described thus: "Sable (black) on a bend argent (silver) three cinquefoils gules (red) all within a bordure engrailed of the second. Crest - Out of a ducal coronet or (gold), a buck's head gules attired gold"."