Author Topic: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!  (Read 20778 times)

Online KGarrad

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 05:44 GMT (UK) »
NB is short for the Latin "Nota Bene", meaning note well.
It's fairly standard in English ;D

The background of the shield is black (sable).
On this is a white (argent or silver) diagonal bar, or Bend.
And on the bend are 3 red (gules) cinquefoils (which is a flower of 5 petals).

The crest is the part that sits on the helmet.
It consists of a buck's head (a male deer) in red (gules) with gold antlers (attired or).
Gorged means collared, and the collar is white or silver (argent).

A good place to find these, and other, heraldic descriptions is "Parker's Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry":
https://www.heraldsnet.org/saitou/parker/Jpglossc.htm

Also, please remember that coats-of-arms do NOT belong to a surname ;D
They were originally granted to a named individual, and only his (usually) male descendants have the right to display the arms.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline gcaso7176

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 11:35 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much, KGarrad!! I appreciate you explaining it all to me. And that website is useful as well.

So since this is a coat of arms, how would one go about determining which member of the Betts family this belonged to? Or could it have been for multiple male descendants?

Thank you!

Online KGarrad

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 31 October 18 20:34 GMT (UK) »
A coat-of-Arms normally follows the eldest son, down through the generations.

Other sons may have the same CoA, but Differenced or with Cadency marks.

Reference books on Armorial Bearings may give clues.
Davidbappleton mentioned some.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline lcsnor

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #21 on: Monday 19 November 18 18:10 GMT (UK) »
Here's what my father had to say:

 I  would say the illustration is somewhat imprecise but may be described as SABLE, ON A BEND ARGENT 3 FLOWERS. That is a black shield with a white stripe on which there are 3 flowers of no obvious colour.

In the recently published authoratative "Dictionary of British Arms"which tries to record all  arms up to 1530 the only flowers on a bend are roses which are different to the flowers in your illustration.I think therefore that the flowers are in fact cinquefoils which  are sort of 5  leaved shamrocks usually abrieviated as 5foils.This leads me to

Sable on a bend argent 3 5foils azure (blue)pierced or (gold)       for Roos.
Sable on a bend argent 3 5foils gules (red)                                for Gegge
Sable on a bend argent 3 pierced 5foils gules                            for Dintres
Sable on a bend argent 3 5foils or                                            for Roos
Sable on a bend argent 3 pierced 5foils or                                 for Roos

Turning to the 19th. century Papworth's Ordinary of Arms which includes some arms later than 1530 but is less authortative I find

Sable on a bend argent3 5foils also sable                                    for Berondon

Papworth also refers to Dintres,Dyntres,Dintrees and Dentrey.

This is about it but I think the family of Roos mentioned above is not the baronial family of that name who had entirely different arms.

Hope this helps.Pierced means there is a hole through the centre of the 5foil hich is coloured differentlly or allows the background colour to show through.
Desperately seeking:
Martha Ann Keily - Limerick/Woolwich mid 1800s
Mary Jane Hawkins - Bridgwater c.1835
George Gulson - Warmfield or Mansfield 1790s

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Offline lcsnor

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #22 on: Monday 19 November 18 18:16 GMT (UK) »
In addition, I talked with my dad about the apparent double border on the bend but he couldn't come up with anything additional based on that.  We also talked about the fact that this could just be a doodle by someone who fancied a coat of arms but didn't have one and the fact that it could be an arms from many different countries - as evidenced by the former comments regarding the american family using a similar coat of arms. 

He wasn't able to shed any light on the crest with the stag and crown but he said he does have a book about crests which he will try to find. 

I think it's also worth noting that a coat of arms is granted to a specific family - not to a specific surname so that if your name is one of those in my previous reply it doesn't mean that you automatically have the right to the coat of arms - however, from a genealogical perspective it is nice to wonder whether and how you may be related to that family.

I hope a little piece of something may be helpful. 
Louise
Desperately seeking:
Martha Ann Keily - Limerick/Woolwich mid 1800s
Mary Jane Hawkins - Bridgwater c.1835
George Gulson - Warmfield or Mansfield 1790s

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Offline yn9man

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 05 December 18 17:55 GMT (UK) »


Sorry I am not able to provide any insight about this family crest. Reading through all the posts I I don't have any information to add. Wish you the best of luck in attempting to sort this out. 
Scotland - Adam, Galt/Gault, Mellis, Jardine, Turnbull, Robertson, Auchincloss, Murray, Allison/Allason, Mitchell, Cross, Rae, Brown, McHutcheon, Montgomerie, McKenzie, Mackay, McPherson, McInish

England - Saunders/Sanders, Jory/Jorie/Jura, McKey, Williams/ Wyllams,  Lance, Ellis, Trounson, Dingle, Charlton, Hambridge, Sweetman/Sweatman, Ricks/Rix/Reeks, Cole, Shearwood/Sherwood, Toy, Brooks, Moore, Donn, Nicolas, Habberfield,

Denmark - Alling/Aalling, Lastein, Lund, Rasmussen

Offline shbgeni

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Re: Help Identifying Family Crest PLEASE!!!
« Reply #24 on: Friday 03 April 20 22:32 BST (UK) »
Not sure if you're looking for any other information at this point, but yes, this is a Betts crest. I have an original hand colored, finished version that was given to my grandfather back in the 1950s I believe.  I also have a signet ring with the same image and motto Malo Mori Quam Foedari.  I believe there is a large version of this image or carving in possession of the owners of Wortham Manor, the Betts Homestead in Suffolk (near Diss).  A cousin of mine visited in the 1980s and helped to fund the restoration of the piece that was hanging above the fireplace in that house.  The ownership has changed since then, so I don't know what happened to it.  The Betts family in America did not actually descend directly from the Betts of Wortham, but many of the early 20th century genealogies made that assumption which is why that image is associated with Thomas Betts and his descendants.

Suzanne Betts