Author Topic: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?  (Read 739 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 01 November 18 12:57 GMT (UK) »
"A Rootschat query has James MacPherson son of John MacPherson & Jean Drummond"

Skoosh, different era...

From OP...
"James was born in 1795, judging by the inscription"

Link to other post;
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=472610.msg3324016#msg3324016

"James McPHERSON b 29 Jul 1829, Greenock - parents John McPHERSON & Jean DRUMMOND"

Annie



South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

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Offline Skoosh

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 01 November 18 14:30 GMT (UK) »
"Jean MacPherson is a person wi luvly yella herr, we went thegither doon the watter last Glesga Ferr!"


Skoosh.

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Offline Emma Pruen

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 01 November 18 17:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annie I’ve been an idiot (or it was just late at night) I meant to say West coast. And yes I’ve been in touch with the DNA matches with no luck.
However I did find a newspaper clipping last night which said James Macpherson was dentist to the great families of the west of Scotland which makes me even more sure his family was from the West and he moved to Glasgow to practice.
"One other clue is that two people who have matched my father on the Y-DNA test had Macpherson ancestors on the East Coast of Scotland around 1770s"
Have you been in touch with those matches to enquire?

This is surprising (to me) as I was of the belief the name M(a)cPherson was more likely from the Highlands of Scotland which is a good distance from East?

Annie

Add...Having re-read your post, people of course moved i.e. it's possible the matches had moved from other areas?

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 01 November 18 21:33 GMT (UK) »
However I did find a newspaper clipping last night which said James Macpherson was dentist to the great families of the west of Scotland which makes me even more sure his family was from the West and he moved to Glasgow to practice.
He didn't need to move if, as the 1841 census says, he was born in Lanarkshire. Lanarkshire including Glasgow is in the West of Scotland already.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline JSAndo

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 02 November 18 03:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Annie
James is a forbear of my son-in-law, through Robert Nasmyth Macpherson.
I can’t be sure as to James' parents - there are several James Macphersons recorded as born in Lanarkshire around 1793.  However, there is evidence to suggest that he was the son of the textile worker David McPherson and Agnes Walker, both formerly of the parish of Buchanan, Stirling, on the east bank of Loch Lomond.
Although the year of James’ death is not completely legible on the Macpherson family obelisk in the Glasgow Necropolis, we know from estate documents that he died on 15 January 1843.  His age at death on the gravestone (48) indicates a birth between 16 January 1794 and 15 January 1795.  However, the 1841 Scottish Census, which rounded ages to the nearest five years, understated his age as ‘40’, so his reported age at death may not be reliable.
The Census confirmed that he was born in Lanarkshire.  There were two James McPhersons born there in this period, one to Robert McPherson, weaver, and Janet McGoune (McGowan) in Glasgow on 8/3/1794 and the other to John McPherson and Janet Whitelaw at rural Razehill (i.e., Raziehill) in Shotts parish on 23/10/1794.  Another possible birth, on 05/07/1795 to Agnes McDonald, wife of the labourer and ‘poor’ sometime soldier John McPherson, falls after the period mandated by James’ declared age at death.
There is some evidence that James and his wife later followed the traditional Scottish naming pattern when their own children were christened: the eldest daughter and second son were certainly named after the wife’s parents, and the third daughter named after the wife.  If the pattern was pursued exactly, the names of James’ eldest son and second daughter would suggest that his own parents were called James and Agnes.  However, there is no record of a James born anywhere in Scotland during this decade to a M(a)cPherson couple so named.
As James called his third son (traditionally named after himself) David, we should consider the possibility that he was born at Glasgow, on 03/01/1793, to David McPherson and Agnes Walker, even though this would have made him 50 (rather than the stated 48) at death.  The names of James’ other children echo, more than for other possible McPherson families into which he may have been born, those of McPherson/Walker children, though not comprehensively or in precise order.  That a James McPherson of Glasgow, father David, studied anatomy at the University of Glasgow in 1812-13 lends weight to this probability.
David McPherson was a textiles worker, a callenderman (who imparted a smooth finish by passing fabric through heavy rollers) and clothlapper (who folded the finished product).  He and ‘Agnas’, both of Buchanan, ‘gave up their Names to be proclaimed in Order of marriage July 19th 1778’.  Buchanan was the birthplace of ‘Rob Roy’ McGregor and perhaps the ‘only true Highland parish’ in Stirling: it had a high proportion of Gaelic speakers.  It is interesting that James and his wife were later married by Glasgow’s Gaelic Minister.
James was clearly an exceptional dental surgeon.  He was a pioneer of new, more scientific, oral surgery techniques and, in August 1840, when American dentists founded the first national dental society, the American Society of Dental Surgeons, they included him among the dozen outstanding foreign practitioners elected as honorary members.
More to add about James but this for the moment

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 02 November 18 08:14 GMT (UK) »
Good post JSO, Glasgow's MacPherson Street was apparently named after a Blantyre farmer who had his arms carved on the building.

Skoosh.

Offline emmapruen

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 02 November 18 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for this, I really appreciate it. I’m very swayed by the info of a James MacPherson son of David studying anatomy. I’d been though various medical institutions in Glasgow and Edinburgh looking for a James Macpherson studying medicine, to no avail.
I’m most interested to know who your son in law is as I am also descended through Robert Nasmyth, would you be able to share his Macpherson line with me?
I know census returns to be unreliable for rounding to the nearest 5 years of age, but I’ve also had birth places assumed to be local when one parent was actually born in a different country! I’d started looking in Argyll as the Y-DNA matches put our ancestors on the west coast at Sunart and found a James Macpherson son of Duguld born 8 Mar 1795 in Southend, Argyll. But I think I’ll pursue the David option for now,
Any more you discover please do pass it on!
Thanks again for your help
Emma Pruen (née Macpherson)
Hi, Annie
James is a forbear of my son-in-law, through Robert Nasmyth Macpherson.
I can’t be sure as to James' parents - there are several James Macphersons recorded as born in Lanarkshire around 1793.  However, there is evidence to suggest that he was the son of the textile worker David McPherson and Agnes Walker, both formerly of the parish of Buchanan, Stirling, on the east bank of Loch Lomond.
Although the year of James’ death is not completely legible on the Macpherson family obelisk in the Glasgow Necropolis, we know from estate documents that he died on 15 January 1843.  His age at death on the gravestone (48) indicates a birth between 16 January 1794 and 15 January 1795.  However, the 1841 Scottish Census, which rounded ages to the nearest five years, understated his age as ‘40’, so his reported age at death may not be reliable.
The Census confirmed that he was born in Lanarkshire.  There were two James McPhersons born there in this period, one to Robert McPherson, weaver, and Janet McGoune (McGowan) in Glasgow on 8/3/1794 and the other to John McPherson and Janet Whitelaw at rural Razehill (i.e., Raziehill) in Shotts parish on 23/10/1794.  Another possible birth, on 05/07/1795 to Agnes McDonald, wife of the labourer and ‘poor’ sometime soldier John McPherson, falls after the period mandated by James’ declared age at death.
There is some evidence that James and his wife later followed the traditional Scottish naming pattern when their own children were christened: the eldest daughter and second son were certainly named after the wife’s parents, and the third daughter named after the wife.  If the pattern was pursued exactly, the names of James’ eldest son and second daughter would suggest that his own parents were called James and Agnes.  However, there is no record of a James born anywhere in Scotland during this decade to a M(a)cPherson couple so named.
As James called his third son (traditionally named after himself) David, we should consider the possibility that he was born at Glasgow, on 03/01/1793, to David McPherson and Agnes Walker, even though this would have made him 50 (rather than the stated 48) at death.  The names of James’ other children echo, more than for other possible McPherson families into which he may have been born, those of McPherson/Walker children, though not comprehensively or in precise order.  That a James McPherson of Glasgow, father David, studied anatomy at the University of Glasgow in 1812-13 lends weight to this probability.
David McPherson was a textiles worker, a callenderman (who imparted a smooth finish by passing fabric through heavy rollers) and clothlapper (who folded the finished product).  He and ‘Agnas’, both of Buchanan, ‘gave up their Names to be proclaimed in Order of marriage July 19th 1778’.  Buchanan was the birthplace of ‘Rob Roy’ McGregor and perhaps the ‘only true Highland parish’ in Stirling: it had a high proportion of Gaelic speakers.  It is interesting that James and his wife were later married by Glasgow’s Gaelic Minister.
James was clearly an exceptional dental surgeon.  He was a pioneer of new, more scientific, oral surgery techniques and, in August 1840, when American dentists founded the first national dental society, the American Society of Dental Surgeons, they included him among the dozen outstanding foreign practitioners elected as honorary members.
More to add about James but this for the moment


Offline Rosinish

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 03 November 18 00:26 GMT (UK) »
Interesting post, good research & analysis JSA...

"As James called his third son (traditionally named after himself) David, we should consider the possibility that he was born at Glasgow, on 03/01/1793, to David McPherson and Agnes Walker, even though this would have made him 50 (rather than the stated 48) at death.  The names of James’ other children echo, more than for other possible McPherson families into which he may have been born, those of McPherson/Walker children, though not comprehensively or in precise order.  That a James McPherson of Glasgow, father David, studied anatomy at the University of Glasgow in 1812-13 lends weight to this probability."


I would agree on the above being a very likely possibility!

Quite often with large families the naming pattern was swapped round or there could be 5 brothers with 1st son named after his g/father i.e. there's a good possibility James had 'a'/older sibling(s) who'd named their 1st son David?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline harrywrag

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Re: Who is the father of James MacPherson, Surgeon Dentist d.Jan 25 1844, Glasgow?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 03 November 18 01:09 GMT (UK) »
was looking to see if could find a death notice for james but no luck but found the following death notice from the Glasgow herald august 16th 1860 reads as follows at the clash callander on 14th inst. jamina Margaret anne macpherson youngest daughter of the late james macpherson esq. surgeon dentist glasgow