Brick wall: Help finding 3 baptisms (1822, 1830, 1850) & a Funeral (1828) please

[teach3r]

With the very kind and considerable help of Rosie99 the first marriage of my 4x great grandfather Thomas Evans is:

2 Feb 1813 Evans, Thomas (of Gwyddelwern) married Williams, Jane at Llandyrnog, Denbigh

Their children are (thank you to Rosie 99 for the names and dates and also to Gadget for helping with the abode translations):

Evan: 25th Deecmber 1813 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Sawyer)
William: 18th January 1816 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation "Grosior")
Maria: 19th April 1818 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation "Grosior")
Thomas: 14th March 1820 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)
Jane: 5th March 1823 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)
Siwsana: 3rd October 1827 Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)

In the 1841/51 census Thomas is married to Catherine.  I am not certain of when his first wife, Jane, was buried but it could be:

9th June 1828 Llygadog, Gwyddelwern  (any help confirming this is appreciated)

Thomas then married for the second time.

23rd June 1829 Evans, Thomas (Widower of Gwyddelwern) married Evans, Catherine in Llanelidan.

The census data for 1841/51 is shown below to confirm the marriage:

1841 - H0107/1428 bk15 f11 p14 - Gwyddelwern
Thomas Evans 51 occ Farmer
Catherine 31
Thomas 21
Hugh 19
Elizabeth 11
all born in County (Merionethshire)

1851
H0107/2509 f153 p15
Thomas 60
Catherine 39
Thomas 1 1/2 bn Gwyddelwern
plus servants

My problem is finding baptisms for those children shown in the census data:

Hugh abt 1822 presumably to Thomas and Jane (b. Merioneth)
Elizabeth abt 1830 to Thomas and Catherine (b. Merioneth)
Thomas abt 1850 to Thomas and Catherine (b. Gwyddelwern)

I have drawn blanks on findmypast, ancestry, freereg and familysearch for all three of these.

Any help would be much appreciated.  Thank you.

Nic

[Gadget]

Hi Nic

I've been looking but so far haven't found any baptisms. However, I did have a look at the GRO records for Thomas (b.c. 1849-50)'s birth reg. He might not have been registered but the three that were registered (Corwen RD) had mother's maiden name as Williams or Hughes.

This started me wondering if you might be looking at possibly two or three families, especially given the change of occupations - Sawyer to grocer to farmer.

Just mentioning this  'in case'.

Gadget

[Gadget]

Further info:

Jane's burial in Gwyddelwern has her 'of Llygadog* in the parish of Corwen', so not sure if it is your Jane 

Gadget

* https://maps.nls.uk/view/102184162#zoom=4&lat=4520&lon=1962&layers=BT

[Gadget]

Do you have a will for Thomas?

This might help with working out the relationships.

Gadget

[teach3r]

Thank you (as always) Gadget,

The exact places of birth are:

Evan: 25th Deecmber 1813 Ty wrth y fynwent, Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Sawyer)
William: 18th January 1816 Ty wrth y fynwent yn Llan, Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation "Grosior")
Maria: 19th April 1818 Ty wrth y fynwent, Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation "Grosior")
Thomas: 14th March 1820 Llan, Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)
Jane: 5th March 1823 Llan, Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)
Siwsana: 3rd October 1827 Llan,Gwyddelwern (Father's occupation Farmer)

This shows that the Sawyer and Grocer are likely to be the same family.

I do have a Thomas Evans who died 22 Nov 1861 at Llygadog proved by the oaths of Thomas, Maria and Susan (could this be Siwsana?).  Could this imply that they are all one and the same?

[teach3r]

This may be a more likely candidate:

Thomas Evans late of Hafotty Boeth who died 16 April 1866.  I have Hugh (my 3x GG) living their in 1843 when he got married.  I also have Thomas (my 4x GG) there in 1841.  Based on the other probate I found that does seem to split into two families?

Update:  I have now ordered this will.

[Gadget]

That one is the same address as on the censuses so hope you get it untangled.

These Welsh surnames are sent to try us - tear our hair out, they do.

I'll see if I can find any more info. Do you have any idea of parents?

Gadget

[teach3r]

Thanks Gadget,

I hadn't looked at the Welsh side for a while and now my head hurts.  A couple of years ago I decided to go back through everyone in my tree and recreate it to make sure that everything is evidenced correctly.  I think in the early years of doing this I wasn't thorough enough or just accepted what I saw as truth (not any more!)

Just today I have come across the names Evan Evans, Edward Edwards and Hugh Hughes, not to mention four generations of Griffith Davies (two of whom married women called Jane!)

Thank you for your help and continued wisdom!

[Gadget]

  I have Hugh (my 3x GG) living their in 1843 when he got married.

Have you got Hugh's baptism record?  I assume he is the Hugh aged 19 in the 1841 census.

Gadget

Add- I've seen his marriage cert.