Author Topic: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?  (Read 9153 times)

Offline solidrock

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Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« on: Friday 02 November 18 01:19 GMT (UK) »
Joseph and Thomas Love were convicts sent to Tasmania in 1836 on the ship Henry Porcher. Joseph was convicted of stealing oranges at Essex Quarter Session  and Thomas for stealing a watch at Essex Quarter Session they both got 7 years. On his release Thomas married Margaret Sinclair and they stayed in Tasmania. Not sure if Joseph married in Tasmania or not but he did go back to England and this maybe him on the 1851 census in  Halstead, Essex with wife Elizabeth, Page Number 1
Registration Number HO107  Piece/Folio 1784 / 216.  Pretty sure it's him on the 1871 census St Giles, Essex with a different wife Mary Ann, they married 1857, Halstead,  Volume 4A  Page 562.
It is thought that they were both born in Ireland but Joseph lived in Halstead and Thomas lived in Coggleshall when they were convicted, Joseph was a saddle maker and Thomas a silk weaver.
Looking for their births and if they were brothers also if Joseph married Elizabeth in Tasmania or England.  Thank you.
 

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 02 November 18 01:25 GMT (UK) »
Where are they both recorded as being born on the census' you have?

What ages are given for both on those census'?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline solidrock

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 02 November 18 01:36 GMT (UK) »
Only have census's for Joseph. In 1851 age 36 born Liverpool and 1871 age 58 born Londonderry, Ireland.

Added, Thomas was 25 when he married in Tasmania the ages on their convict records are both 18.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 02 November 18 01:49 GMT (UK) »
Born c1813 - 1818

Not much help but I would think the name Joseph would imply Catholic?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline solidrock

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 02 November 18 01:52 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Annie.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 November 18 02:00 GMT (UK) »
"Not sure if Joseph married in Tasmania, this maybe him on the 1851 census in  Halstead, Essex with wife Elizabeth, Page Number 1
Registration Number HO107  Piece/Folio 1784 / 216.  Pretty sure it's him on the 1871 census St Giles, Essex with a different wife Mary Ann, they married 1857, Halstead"


Have you looked for a possible death for Elizabeth between 1851 & 1871.

What occ. does Joseph have on both census'?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline solidrock

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 November 18 02:07 GMT (UK) »
"What occ. does Joseph have on both census'?"

1851 - Saddler
1871 - Saddle Maker

Convict record - Saddle Make

Joseph died 1883 Peterborough age 71.

Offline Jamjar

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 November 18 02:39 GMT (UK) »
His convict records shows that he was in stife in 1846 and this may be the account on Trove:

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article65943624

Assuming he returned to England and was on the 1851 census as married, there are only two possible marriages showing on FreeBMD:

Dec 1849 Wolverhampton 17 488    
Love Joseph

Sep 1851 Stepney 2 558   
Love Joseph

Second marriage, maybe:

Dec 1857 Halstead 4a   562   
Love Joseph   
Norman Mary Ann        

Jamjar

Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline solidrock

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Re: Joseph and Thomas Love, were they brothers?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 02 November 18 03:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jamjar, The 1857 is right for Mary Ann but not sure about her birth date or place. The wife in 1851 census is Elizabeth and I can't find an England or Tasmania marriage. Thanks for the Trove link, I'll follow that up.