Author Topic: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.  (Read 487 times)

Offline bjo

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« on: Saturday 03 November 18 02:10 GMT (UK) »
Hello
I have learned a lot about my Grandfather from these boards and would like to find out a bit more if possible.
My Grandfather Arthur Edmond ORSLER was a private in the ist Battalion rifle brigade who died at Au bon Gite near Langemark on 2nd October 1917.
I have what I think is his enlistment card but there is no date for his enlistment.  There looks that he may have been wounded (can't read it very well) and then went back into battle.
My questions are:  When did he enlist, what were his injuries and when did he sustain them.  Would he have been sent back to England to recover.  What battles would he have fought in with that regiment.
Any new information will be good to know.
Thank you

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline philipsearching

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,294
  • I was a beautiful baby, - what went wrong?
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 November 18 02:50 GMT (UK) »
Your image is the second of 3 on Anc*****.

The first page of the enlistment form has him signing up on 6 December 1915 in Shoreditch.  He was posted to the Reserve and not mobilised until 29 Apr 1916.  The date of his posting to the BEF is too faded to read.

The description of the wounds looks like Sm wnd head hands & shldr and the date might be 4.11.16, but the writing is not easy to read.

The timeline on page 3 indicates that Arthur was sent back to England on 13 Nov 1916 where he would most likely have spent time in a military hospital.  He recovered well enough to be posted back to his unit and returned to France on 15 Jun 1917.  (NOTE - "France" could mean either France or Belgium).

I cannot see Arthur's medical record on Anc***** and the Register of Soldiers' Effects has no detail other than Killed in Action 2.10.17 Belgium.

A snippet of the third page is below:
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br /><br />

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline philipsearching

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,294
  • I was a beautiful baby, - what went wrong?
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 November 18 03:18 GMT (UK) »
Just because it's a nice thing to have - this is Arthur's signature on the first page of his attestation form:
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br /><br />

Offline MaxD

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,945
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 November 18 10:12 GMT (UK) »
A few more snippets to add to Philip's find on Ancestry (there are no asterisks in the name!).

His enlistment and joining dates suggest he volunteered under the Derby Scheme whereby, before conscription, men volunteered, were attested, place on the reserve, sent home and then recalled when required.
He served in France first from 14 September 1916 with 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade who he joined on 29 September.  Less than a month later on 27 October he sustained the wounds that resulted in him being sent back to England.

When he recovered he went back in June 1917, this time to 1st Battalion arriving with them on 14 July 1917. 

His medal card is under Arthur E Osler and records his British War and Victory medals.  He left his effects of 2 3s 8d and his war gratuity of 6 to his widow Laura (listed as Winters -she had re-married).

On the day he was killed in the area of Langemark, North East of Ypres , the war diary says "Front line quiet.  Support Company and Battalion HQ heavily shelled"

If you want to look at the war diaries to see what the 2nd and then 1st Battalion were involved in they can be downloaded from the National Archives at:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017311   (2nd Bn 1916)

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C14016999  (There are two for 1 Bn covering the time he was there)
The diaries are on Ancestry if you have a sub?

MaxD

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,837
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 November 18 10:19 GMT (UK) »
He was wounded near Trones Wood France. One of 230 casualties suffered during the operations there.
The 2nd. went out on the 25th. Oct. & he was reported wounded on the 27th. He went through the medical chain & sent back to the UK on the 12th. Nov.
The assault he was involved in was North of Trones Wood & East of Goudecourt (square N.28.d on this map)
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101465185
The below map is from the diary & gives a precise account of what they were doing.
The red dots represent 2/RB who were tasked with taking Zenith & Eclipse trenches with the usual depressing result. Although they succeeded the Bde. suffered over a thousand casualties.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline bjo

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 04 November 18 23:14 GMT (UK) »
Oh my !!  Thank you so much for this new information.  I can barely read it all without feeling so very sad.  I note with interest that Arthur Edmond joined up two weeks before his only child was born (My Father Arthur William Orsler b. 30.12.1915)

A couple of questions before I digest all this new information.
I thought that as his remains were not found that he was classed as MIA ?  Or is that the same as 'killed in action'.  He is remembered on the wall at Tyne Cot.
I wonder what the sm means in 'Sm wnd head hands & shldr'
I had this information that I attach sent to me some years ago from this forum, and it seems to fit with this new information.
I can see now that Arthur Edmond started service in the 2nd Btn rifle brigade and that after being sent home due to wounds he went back and joined the 1st Btn rifle brigade.
From the dates I have now seen it appears that he wasn't a very lucky man.  Then again not many were.
My Dad was adopted soon after the war as his Mother had died in 1920.  So My Dad never knew anything at all about his parents.  I would loved to have been able to show him all that I now know.
Many thanks once again
Brenda

PS One thing that I find baffling is why the signature on his enlistment is so different writing to the part where it states 'I, Arthur Edmond Orsler' unless that part was filled in by another person receiving the enlistments ?

Offline philipsearching

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,294
  • I was a beautiful baby, - what went wrong?
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 November 18 23:44 GMT (UK) »
I thought that as his remains were not found that he was classed as MIA ?  Or is that the same as 'killed in action'.  He is remembered on the wall at Tyne Cot.

PS One thing that I find baffling is why the signature on his enlistment is so different writing to the part where it states 'I, Arthur Edmond Orsler' unless that part was filled in by another person receiving the enlistments ?

"Missing in action" or "Missing presumed killed" means that no-one knew what happened.  "Killed in Action" can mean that Arthur was known to have been killed, but (in the middle of an engagement) his body was not recovered.

The form would have been filled in by the recruiter, and Arthur signed it.  Bear in mind that education for working class people could be very rudimentary and not everyone was literate, so it was easier and faster for the recruiter to fill in the forms.

Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk<br /><br /><br />

Offline bjo

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 502
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 November 18 00:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Philip.

Offline jim1

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,837
  • ain't life grand
    • View Profile
Re: Rifle Brigade 1st Batallion.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 05 November 18 10:23 GMT (UK) »
I don't think it's an "s". The usual term is GSW (gun shot wound) which I think it's supposed to be although the nature of his wounds would indicate shrapnel. The medical services didn't differentiate one from the other.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/