Author Topic: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype  (Read 1096 times)

Offline Jvankort

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YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« on: Saturday 03 November 18 16:06 GMT (UK) »
My grandfathers (both sides) took a powder a century ago.  We know their names.  Is the Ydna test all that useful when we know their names?  Being that the Ydna test is so much more expensive and the surname list does not seem to be public data, how do we know if money spent on this test is not equal to pulling the flush handle?  At 4 times the expense, who would be buying it?

I have taken the autosomal dna test, my sister and mother's sister too.  We have thousands of matches.  How do we clear the clutter and find our dad's families? 

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Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 04 November 18 05:41 GMT (UK) »

I had to Google 'took a powder' to understand what you meant. For others as unaware of American slang like myself, it means they disappeared.

It depends on what you are looking for when you test.

yDNA testing will give you information about your father's father's father's etc DNA.

https://isogg.org/wiki/Y_chromosome_DNA_tests

This will obviously only apply to your paternal grandfather, providing that you are a male, or can find a male from the same line to test (brother, father, paternal uncle). It will give you no information about your maternal grandfather at all.

The autosomal test which you, your sister and maternal aunt have had done, will give you information about both your grandfathers.

If you are hoping to find out if you have any half aunts or uncles from 2nd relationships your grandfathers may have had, it will be a question of waiting to see who has tested and looking for close matches that you have never heard of before.

If you are hoping to find out about your grandfathers' ancestors, there again, it will be a question of sorting through your matches, perhaps following Lost Cousins DNA masterclass techniques.

https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/aug17news.htm#Masterclass

If you can persuade a paternal uncle to test as well, you will have representatives from both paternal and maternal lines, should help you decide which side of your tree your many thousands of matches are from.

Use shared matches as much as possible.

FWIW I have 2 brothers, neither of whom have shown an interest in DNA testing. If I was feeling generous, I would pay for them to have autosomal tests, would not consider paying for them to have yDNA tests.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

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Offline Jvankort

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 20:34 GMT (UK) »
Here's my peculiar situation and I'm wondering if the Y-dna test would be of any use.  My father's surname was Little.  I'm finding dna relations to a number of families who have the same surname prominent in their families.  The problem I'm having is that I can find no relation between the families.  Family-A Little and family-B Little and family-C Little don't seem to be related to each other but are to me?!  So maybe it's not the Little name.?

Anyway, the other main question is: Y-DNA is going to show pretty much all males with Little for a surname as related right?  So what purpose is there in taking that expensive test?

The third question is: If the testee is giving a cheek-swab or spit sample in a mailer, why are the testing companies charging so much for including the data they already have and selling it as y-dna or MtDNA vs autosomal DNA?  The Ancestry dna data includes chromosome 23 but it doesn't include the info about it that I can see other than there is something there.  Maybe I don't understand fully what is going on with that.

Offline davidft

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 21:10 GMT (UK) »
1. Family-A Little and family-B Little and family-C Little don't seem to be related to each other but are to me?!  So maybe it's not the Little name.?

2. Anyway, the other main question is: Y-DNA is going to show pretty much all males with Little for a surname as related right?  So what purpose is there in taking that expensive test?


Re 1. the bit in bald is your possible answer. It is extremely likely that all people with the Little name are related. It is a name that would have occurred independently in different locations and used by unrelated people.

Re 2. No. The purpose of taking the Y DNA test is to distinguish between all the different contenders who bear the same surname to see who is or is not related. For example my surname is in the top 200 UK surnames but of the 3000 plus people with my surname who have taken a Y DNA test only two come anywhere close but even then not close enough. (Little was ranked 304 in 1998)

Didn't follow your last point, sorry

Oh and re Ydna tests in my personal opinion you need to test at least at Y67 level for it to be meaningful and at Y111 if you can afford it. Yes I know more expense!!!!

Offline Ruskie

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Is it possible that the Little's are related but further back than your paper trail goes .... or maybe you just haven't found the common ancestor? And to add to the confusion a YDNA test might match you with men whose surname is not Little.

Men with the surname Little could have moved from one area to another and seemingly not be related, but if you go back far enough you might find a single point of origin ... or maybe not. :)

It also depends on how many men have taken a YDNA test as to how many matches you may or may not get with men with the same surname, or any surname for that matter. It further depends on how extensive their tree is is they have one, or if they have any interest in finding a connection with you.

Offline Jvankort

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 21:48 GMT (UK) »
I'm getting 3rd to 4th cousin hits and when I go to the family trees and start following each generation back to the appropriate time frames I can find no CA!  My grandfather was born in Calif. 1896.  He does not seem to exist.  I link to a family in Idaho, the persons I possibly could be the 3-4 generation connection wasn't in California in 1896.  The family in Michigan wasn't in California and no connection to the one for Idaho with a 3-4 gen link and ditto for Tennessee and North Carolina and Ark. 
I can't rule out unknown links other than checking the dna matchlist for surnames of other people in the trees.  Not finding any names that seem to be common. 
I can't see how the y-dna test would help when most other men wouldn't be using it.  If it's not used what are the chances of getting a hit other than to someone who is so far off the list they might have well have been born with Julius Ceasar.

What's needed is better tools.  The given search engines like to throw a lot of clutter into searches instead of looking for what is placed into the search parameters.  Wasting hundreds of hours

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 20:29 GMT (UK) »
Going back to "taking a powder", dictionary. Com says,

"Phrase take a powder "scram, vanish," is from 1920; it was a common phrase as a doctor's instruction, so perhaps from the notion of taking a laxative medicine or a sleeping powder, with the result that one has to leave in a hurry (or, on another guess, from a magician's magical powder, which made things disappear)."

Even Michael Caine doesn't know that!

Martin
Gedmatch DNA Kit H062246.
FT-DNA Kit B388093

Names:
Loughborough and Loughbrough, (London, Hull, Pirton, Durham & Hartlepool);
Watson, (Bedlington, Jarrow & Hartlepool);
Ballard & Glassop (E. London); 
Leggett (Corton, Scarborough, Hartlepool); 
Young, Adamson & Wilson, (Hartlepool). 

I use GRAMPS v5.0 software. 

My ancestors are probably turning in their graves, not that I can actually find any of them.

Offline Jvankort

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 November 18 02:05 GMT (UK) »
what's the definition of "bit-in-bald"?
Here's the puzzle, a lot of these matches say 3rd-4th, 3rd-5th and I look up their tree and go back as far as they list from 1-on which could be 7-8 gens and there is no common ancestor, at least not a Little one.  So, I'm doing the y-dna and see if I even have the right surname. 
I have another puzzle, a 3rd cousin match to another cousin's in-law uncle.  Can't find the CA there either.  It's a known 1st cousin who has a dna match to me, but why should I have a match to his mothers brother-in-law?

Offline sugarfizzle

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Re: YDNA confusion, surnames, sales hype
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 November 18 03:51 GMT (UK) »
Jvankort

I find your messages extremely hard to follow.

It would be helpful if you didn't use abbreviations or slang as, they may mean something different, or may mean nothing at all, to those thousands of miles away.

On Tuesday you wrote
'I can't see how the y-dna test would help when most other men wouldn't be using it.  If it's not used what are the chances of getting a hit other than to someone who is so far off the list they might have well have been born with Julius Ceasar.'
On Wednesday you wrote
'So, I'm doing the y-dna and see if I even have the right surname.'

Take heed of the advice given to you by Ruskie and davidft if you are determined to take the test.

DNA testing is not magical. It really does depend upon who has tested and who has not, and how much DNA they have inherited from a particular ancestor..
There were no proven matches to my maiden name when I started out. There were plenty for my great grandmother's surname. Perhaps there was a misattributed great grandfather? My paternal first cousin tested and she had matches straightaway to 19 century ancestors, now I have a few as well.

As for 'bit in bald', it is clearly a typo for 'bit in bold'.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go