Author Topic: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy  (Read 801 times)

Offline chrisos

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Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« on: Saturday 03 November 18 23:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I have an old Fraser family tree transcribed from the family Bible going back to the early 1700's in the Kiltarlity area of Inverness.  It commences with a Roderick Fraser who had a confirmed daughter named Mary.  I have located the baptism of a Mary Fraser in 1748 to father Rory Fraser alias McEan (in Wester Clunes which is where he was known to be from). I believe McEan transcribes to Rory Fraser alias son of John. 

Carrying on from this I have located the baptism of a Rory McEan in 1705 in Kilmorack, Inv to "John McEan or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy".  My interpretation of this is Rory McEan, son of John McEan who was the son of John but I am not sure about the remainder ie "duie vicConil vicRoy".  Can anyone interpret this for me please.  Roy is possibly for Rory but not sure.

I am also wondering if families in the Highlands of Scotland back in the very early years actually had surnames.  Suddenly in 1748 Rory becomes a Fraser (earlier children's baptisms show him as McEan).  I suspect the family were crofters who took on the Fraser surname but cannot be sure.

Then I have a suspected marriage of Rory Mcean to Anne ninAndrew.  I am assuming that this means Ann daughter of Andrew. But Andrew who?  Very challenging for sure.
Any help re this would be very much appreciated.
Regards
Chris
 

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Offline horselydown86

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 04 November 18 02:12 GMT (UK) »
I can't help you with the intricacies of Scots expression, but assuming your quote is from the first line, I read the last word as Reiry rather than Roy.

We do have a couple of experts in matters Scots, so with luck one will be along to tackle your main questions.

 

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Offline chrisos

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 04 November 18 09:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Yes, I agree with you that Roy should be Reiry.  The writing isnít easy to decipher initially, but once pointed out seems obvious.  But Reiry who??.
Chris

Offline dublin1850

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 04 November 18 14:45 GMT (UK) »
Could 'vic' be the Scots form of the Irish 'Mhic' meaning 'son of'?
The pronunciation would be the same.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon [Sligo/Kilkenny], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline chrisos

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #4 on: Monday 05 November 18 00:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dublin1850
Thanks for your reply.  Yes I believe the vic means "son of".  I would very much like to know what the "duie" refers to though as this would affect my understanding of the continuation of the Ean line - were Conil & Reiry respective fathers or perhaps maternal and paternal grandparents?  This has been an interesting learning process.
Regards
Chris

Online Maiden Stone

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #5 on: Monday 05 November 18 03:02 GMT (UK) »
Could 'vic' be the Scots form of the Irish 'Mhic' meaning 'son of'?
The pronunciation would be the same.

I wondered that too.

Could "duie" be dubh meaning dark or black, sometimes used to distinguish a man from another with same name - e.g. Black Douglas rather than  Red Douglas.

Might the date of 1748 when you noticed the change of surname be significant? 2 years after Culloden. Clampdown on all things Gaelic.

Re. "Anne ninAndrew" Could it be nicAndrew? Nic would be daughter would it not?

Offline chrisos

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #6 on: Monday 05 November 18 04:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Maiden Stone
Didn't think of that.  2 years after Culloden makes perfect sense for replacing the name McEan with Fraser.  Can someone else expand on this?  Was this a common occurrence - would explain the introduction of the name Fraser.  So far however, it seems that my ancestors were simply known by their first names.

Also, does anyone know if it was common for whole families to occupy farms such as that at Wester Clunes.  Would everyone named Fraser located at Wester Clunes for example, be related? 
Regards
Chris

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 November 18 04:21 GMT (UK) »
Chris, you may receive better answers to these last questions on the Scotland board.  I'm not suggesting moving the post - I still have hope that an answer to the language questions will come on this board.

Perhaps start a new post for the general questions on the Scotland board and add a link to the post here.

Also I found this:

http://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/duoy

Please remember that I have no idea whether this applies to your document and time period (note how late the examples given are).

I mention it only in case it might be helpful.

Offline chrisos

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Re: Fraser or vicEan duie vicConil vicRoy
« Reply #8 on: Monday 05 November 18 04:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi horsleydown86
You have been extremely helpful with the link - thank you very much.
I will also do as suggested and transfer my general questions to the Scotland board.
Thank you
Chris