William KIRKER

[fred21]

All the certificates I have are the official full certificates issued by the New Zealand Births, Deaths and Marriages office in Wellington and none of our official certificates list the witnesses etc on certificates (maybe it's the NZ BDMS policy or something - I don't know why they do this but they do and I have a lot of certificates from them)

The only way to possibly get more information would be to visit the BDM office in Wellington and then request to look at each record in person, though I am not sure if they still provide this access and currently I am unable to visit them as I live a few hours drive away from the office. Next time I am in Wellington I will try to visit them and see if they will let me view the original record.

As far as we know neither William or Isabel had any family living in New Zealand.  They were both immigrants.

William is not the informant on any of his children's birth certificates - an agent is listed as the informant - again probably because William lived quite remotely and far from any city.

All the information except his marriage certificate is from other people as informants i.e. death cert, children's birth certs, headstone, etc.

So if we take his marriage as true then he was born in Buniygong, Victoria which I have definitely confirmed is not true.  So once again we are back to square one.  It's possible he was born somewhere else in Victoria BUT I have had their BDM records searched and there are no William Kirkers mentioned in any of the records.

It is possible his birth was never registered in Australia anywhere which means we will never know where he actually came from.


Hence the investigation into his parents William KIRKER and Mary BROWN.

[wivenhoe]

Read this -
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/paymentsandproducts

I think the document you need is a printout, not a certificate.

Phone the people at BDM and ask which record will be an image of a handwritten original because that is what you need.

You need to see the full marriage record.

If William gives his birthplace as Buniygong, it does not mean that this is incorrect information. He is probably using the name given later, to the general area where he was born.

[jonw65]

Southland Times 10 Feb 1914
KIRKER. — On Saturday evening, February 7 at his residence, Wyndham, William KIRKER, farmer, native of Victoria, the beloved husband of Isabella KIRKER; aged 77 years. The friends of the late William KIRKER are respectfully invited to attend bis funeral, which will leave his late residence, Wyndham. on Tuesday, 10th inst, at 2.20 o’clock p.m, for the Wyndbam Cemetery.

Mataura Ensign, 10 February 1914
Detailed obit of William Kirker (halfway down)
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ME19140210.2.48?

Says born Plank Road, Buninyong!

[fred21]

Yes I did think about Buniygong not be the actual place but someplace near pr the general area etc BUT I have looked into this thoroughly by contacting various historical societies and going through all the Victoria BDM's and there are no Kirker's there listed anywhere for that state.

Although we can never be 100% accurate because records do get lost and people do sometimes not get registered on any official documents so there is a very small chance that William was born in Victoria and just not listed anywhere.  Strange though that there are no other Kirker's for the state of Victoria during 1800 to 1875 as I would have thought at least one of his parents or possibly a sibling might have died there etc.  But no there are no Kirkers mentioned anywhere.  Which is kind of odd.

This pretty much does make you think that he didn't come from there and perhaps lied for some reason.  Maybe escaping a marriage or a crime or family?

We may never know.

I will definitely try to see if I can get a printout of his marriage and see if it has any extra information though I am not hopeful.  I will ask around some of the other distant family members and see if they have a printout and what information is on it.

For now I guess this is a brick wall that will remain.

So far I have tried pretty much everything in New Zealand and Australia.  Ireland was kind of my last hope...

Maybe one day

Thanks so much for all your help and suggestions.

[Jamjar]

Plank Rd: https://bih.federation.edu.au/index.php/Plank_Road

Jamjar

[fred21]

thanks for the obit.

I looked into the Plank Road thing etc but once again it was all a dead end.  No Kirker's anywhere.  And Plank Road didn't exist until the late 1850's which would once again change William's age to being even younger than we thought.  Which is a possibility.

Funny thing - his age on his death certificate was 77, 78 on the obit and 70 on his headstone.  Seems his family didn't really know how old he was either

[fred21]

thanks for the 2nd link - sadly it's an unsecure connection so my browser won't let me go there and open it up.

[Jamjar]

Strange though that there are no other Kirker's for the state of Victoria during 1800 to 1875 as I would have thought at least one of his parents or possibly a sibling might have died there etc.  But no there are no Kirkers mentioned anywhere.

You will find 8 listings for KIRKER on VICBDM, for years 1863-1883:

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

[wivenhoe]

Use this to find KIRKERS. Note the names.....including REA.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

Then use BDM NZ   https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search

To see the same KIRKER - REA names