William KIRKER

[wivenhoe]

BDM NZ
1884/3012   Isabel   WATT   / William   KIRKER

Can you please complete the information from this certificate. It should have information about Isabel......identify a church?.........name witnesses.......

".. all various certificates etc that I have for him he has put different information in regards to his age and birthplace.  On some he says he was born in Belfast and on others that he was born in Victoria, Australia. "

Can you please list all the information on the death certificate, including the name of the informant, and time in the country.

For all occasions where you see a recorded birthplace for William, can you identify each of them, with source ( eg. informant on birth or death certificate) and the circumstance of the record if it is not a BDM certificate.

Do you have a signature for William among your documents.....might be handy.

[Jamjar]

Birthplace: Boningong, Victoria, Australia

Given the name of place is unusual, I would say it’s not something he just picked out of the blue.

Shouldn’t it be those at Buninyong, you made contact with?

Jamjar

[fred21]

Yes it is sometimes spelt Buninyong and yes I did contact them and no they are absolutely certain that he was not born there or anywhere close by or that there were any Kirker's there at all.  So I'm fairly certain that this is a red-herring - though I haven't crossed it off completely.

Death certificate for 1914
Name: William Kirker
Age: 77 (which would put his birth as 1837)
Where born: Bunniygong, Victoria, Australia
How long in New Zealand:  44 years (which meant he came to New Zealand around 1869/1870
Name of father: not known
Name of mother: not known
Profession of father: not known

There is no informant mentioned - just has the name of the medical attendant and when the attendant last saw him.

On his marriage certificate for 1884 he states his age as 35 which would mean he was born c1849 which is 12 years later than his age on his death cert.

On his son Robert Alexander birth cert he states his age as 44 which gives a birth date of c1850 and birthplace is just Victoria.

On one of his other children's birth cert his birth date works out to be c1845 and his birthplace is Belfast, Ireland.

I haven't yet managed to find an immigration record for him to New Zealand so can't confirm when and where he came from with that either.

His marriage certificate is the earliest document and since he gave the information is hopefully the most reliable.

The Australian connection is very confusing as the records for Victoria, Australia BDM's are very good but he's not on any of them and the place he mentions says he could not have been born there as it was not settled during the 1837-1850 time period so there is no way he could have been born there.

I did find this Australian record which might shed some light... or not

"A William Kirker was transported to Australia on the 10 Sept 1846 to NSW - ship "Henry Packer?" sentenced to 12 years - was this man his father?- source the Phoenix Hulk Transportation Entrance Records for 1838-1846 "

and also this Belfast record

"21 Sep 1859 • Belfast
12 year old William Henry Kirker disappeared - his parents were William Kirker and Mary Ann Wilson"

With all the leds to William Kirker hitting a dead end I thought looking at his parents might help (though I know it is not the best way to do things).  Hence the query about William KIRKER and Mary BROWN.

Hope this helps

[wivenhoe]

 Can you please give attention to this request -

BDM NZ
1884/3012   Isabel   WATT   / William   KIRKER

Can you please complete the information from this certificate. It should have information about Isabel......identify a church?.........name witnesses.......

"..On one of his other children's birth cert his birth date works out to be c1845 and his birthplace is Belfast, Ireland."

Which birth is this. Who is the informant?. Is father William KIRKER the informant?.

Where did you find this -

"21 Sep 1859 • Belfast
12 year old William Henry Kirker disappeared - his parents were William Kirker and Mary Ann Wilson"

[fred21]

Not sure if this will help also but the names of William and Isobel children were

Agnes Jane
William James
Jessie Isabella
John Thomas
Mary Milne
Robert Alexander
Elizabeth Margaret
Christina Florine
Peter Silvester
Catherine Davidson

All born in New Zealand but I thought I would include their names as maybe there are naming patterns in Ireland like there are in Scotland etc.  and perhaps some of the names appear in other KIRKER families in Ireland

[fred21]

Marriage certificate has no witnesses mentioned or church.  Just states Invercargill as the place.
Isobel was born in Scotland which the certificate states

As for the other birth I haven't got that certificate as it was information that was given to me by another family member who had the cerfiticate.  The informants on Roberts was an agent so I'm guessing it was the same for this other child and all the children.

William lived in a pretty remote part of New Zealand so he probably sent someone else into town to registrar the births.

The information about the missing boy was from Ancestry.

[wivenhoe]

What certificates do you have - in front of you now, and accessible as information to people on a forum?

The marriage certificate, 1884 - where did you get it? You need to see the original record. A legal marriage would need to have witnesses. Witnesses are important information as they are often relatives, even if the names might not be familiar to you.

You have 10 recorded births to William KIRKER and Isabel WATT.

Where William is the informant on a birth certificate, how does he give his birthplace?

Do you have a birth certificate for a KIRKER child with father William KIRKER named as the informant?

You have said that he lies about his birthplace. You need to be specific and identify where you see William KIRKER giving conflicting information about his birthplace..........William, not someone else giving his birthplace.

Otherwise you have William, at marriage 1884 identifying his birthplace as Victoria.

[Jamjar]

Fred, does it actually say Belfast, Ireland?

I asked this because some years back I was searching for an ancestor from Belfast Ireland, only to discover it was Belfast Victoria, which I didn’t know existed.

On Papers Past there is a Kirker arriving from Melbourne. Unfortunately, there was no first name.

As an aside, have seen his will? He leaves all to Isobel and son John.

Jamjar

[ShaunJ]

I think this must be the "Belfast" item:

We have been requested to mention, that a boy, named William Henry Kirker, aged about twelve years, left his parents; house, 120, Kennedy's place, Shankhill Road, about three weeks ago, and has not since been heard of. He is of fair complexion, and has blue eyes. When he left home, he was habited in a blue frock coat, dark trousers, and dark cap. Any person who can give any information concerning him to the chief of the constabulary, or to his unhappy parents, will be performing an act of Christian duty.

 Northern Whig 21 September 1859

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/62029609/story/68beb66a-1d06-4f25-8334-c4ba6ade8c8b