Author Topic: James Thompson married Ann ?  (Read 1131 times)

Offline PaulThommo

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James Thompson married Ann ?
« on: Tuesday 06 November 18 06:20 GMT (UK) »
Hello RootsChatters, a little bit of help required to see if I am on the right track or not. From what I can discover a brother of my G. Grandfather James Jefferson Thompson married an Ann ? in 1851 but I am trying to work out if I have the correct Ann.
Facts:
JJT is the 3rd child of 12 to parents Robert & Margery (nee Jefferson) Thompson, he was baptised 13 November 1829 (this is the only time I have seen his middle name, Jefferson used).
1851 census he is living (aged 21) with his parents and various other brothers & sisters at Westoe Village, South Shields (Westoe village is actually a street which had large houses and it seems numerous families lived in the houses), his occupation is listed as Labourer which it is for every other census he appears on.
1861 census has him living (aged 31) in Westoe village with his wife Ann (aged 36) who was born in Morpeth, Northumberland. They have 3 children Elizabeth (9, born Morpeth), Robert (7) & Jane Ann (4), the last 2 born South Shields. James parents R&M Thompson were still living in Westoe village (no. of schedule for R&M was 177 and for J&A was 181 so it could have been the same house). Do not confuse this with James & Maria Thompson who are also in Westoe village (no. of schedule 153). Maria Thompson was the sister of my James who married a James Thompson (why change a surname!!) who also lived with his parents George and Mary in Westoe village, they married in 1853. There is also another son of R&M Thompson called James but he was born in 1844. 2 James in one family!!!
1871 census, still in Westoe village (aged 41 & 47) with 2 of their children. 1881 finds them moved but not far to Wallis cottages aged 51 & 57 and 1881 finds them living with their son in law and his family, interestingly enough they are listed as aged 60 & 70.

This is where it starts to get a bit murky. I have picked Ann's surname to be Watson because their first daughter Elizabeth (baptised 25 May 1851 Morpeth) is Elizabeth Watson Thompson, parents names James Thompson & Ann (of course I could be totally off track but it was common to name children after the wifes maiden name eg. Jefferson). Looking through the Durham Bishops transcripts for Morpeth the only Ann Watson born around that period was baptised 6 August 1820 which made her 9 years older than James, but the 1881 census has them as 10 years apart, so it could fit in.
I had thoughts of Ann having been previously married and her married name was Watson, but you wouldn't name your child after your previous married name (would you?). Anyway there were 16 Ann's born in Morpeth between 1822 & 1825 and non married a Watson as far as I can see.
I can't find Ann Watson on the 1841 or 1851 census. Her parents William & Ann were living in Morpeth on the 1841 with 2 daughters, but not Ann.
Wedding. There is a wedding registration from Jan-March 1851 (vol. 25 Page 326 it lists 8 people in total) which includes both a James Thompson and an Ann Watson, in Newcastle (approx. half way between the 2 towns). I haven't been able to find a link between them to confirm this, however James was with his parents on the 1851 census (taken 30 March). A question, marriage registrations, what period of time from registration do they have until marriage? could they have easily got married after March?
Deaths: a James Thompson died South Shields Jan-Mar 1901, aged 72, age matches. An Ann Thompson died in South Shields burial 5/7/1893 at St Hilda's church, but no age given. I can't find either of them on the 1901 census.
I hope you are still awake after reading this request, I apologise for the length but wanted to include everything that I know. Any help in working all of this out would be appreciated. I know I can send off for the marriage certificate hoping that it was JT who married AW, if not it's back to square one.
Also why is Morpeth listed under Durham in the counties when it is in Northumberland? Mind you it comes in handy for this request for information!!!
Many thanks, Paul
Thompson - Stokesley, Great Ayton, Little Ayton &  Easby Nth Yorkshire. Westoe, South Shields, Gateshead
Dobson - Westoe & South Shields
Jefferson - South Shields
Rippon - Jarrow & South Shields
Purves & Harvey - South Shields

Offline Jamjar

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 06:40 GMT (UK) »
Births fit with ages on the 1861:

THOMPSON, ELIZABETH  WATSON mmn WATSON 
GRO Reference: 1851  J Quarter in MORPETH  Volume 25  Page 166

THOMPSON, JANE  ANN mmn WATSON
GRO Reference: 1856  D Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS UNION  Volume 10A  Page 431

THOMPSON, ROBERT mmn WATSON
GRO Reference: 1854  M Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS UNION  Volume 10A  Page 375

The marriage to which you refer:

Mar 1851 Newcastle 25 326
THOMPSON James   
WATSON Ann    

Looking through the Durham Bishops transcripts for Morpeth the only Ann Watson born around that period was baptised 6 August 1820 which made her 9 years older than James, but the 1881 census has them as 10 years apart

The 3 censuses have the age difference between them as 6, 5, 6 years.

1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q271-VLT4

Jamjar
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Offline Kay99

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 07:01 GMT (UK) »
Could  this be Ann Watson in 1851?? Living in Morpeth   - did I miss it on your post?

Ann Watson 60 b Alnwick
Ann Thompson    28 Married  Daughter  b Morpeth
Janes Watson    24  b Morpeth

Kay

Offline Jamjar

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 07:03 GMT (UK) »
Could  this be Ann Watson in 1851?? Living in Morpeth   - did I miss it on your post?

Ann Watson 60 b Alnwick
Ann Thompson    28 Married  Daughter  b Morpeth
Janes Watson    24  b Morpeth

Kay

The age fits.

Jamjar
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Offline Jamjar

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 07:24 GMT (UK) »
There is also another son of R&M Thompson called James but he was born in 1844

Not on GRO. There are these around 1844:

THOMPSON, WILLIAM mmn JEFFERSON 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in SOUTHSHIELDSUNION  Volume 24  Page 211

THOMPSON, THOMAS mmn JEFFERSON 
GRO Reference: 1843  D Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS UNION  Volume 24  Page 204

THOMPSON, GEORGE mmn JEFFERSON 
GRO Reference: 1845  J Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS UNION  Volume 24  Page 211

Jamjar


Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline Jamjar

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 07:41 GMT (UK) »
Could  this be Ann Watson in 1851?? Living in Morpeth   - did I miss it on your post?

Ann Watson 60 b Alnwick
Ann Thompson    28 Married  Daughter  b Morpeth
Janes Watson    24  b Morpeth

Kay

On the 1841, I see only one Ann mother with daughter Jane living Morpeth. Head of house is William. Ann Jnr isn’t with them.:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7W6-4JY

Jamjar
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline PaulThommo

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Many, many thanks Jamjar and Kay for all your assistance. Apologies for the delay in replying but such a nice day outside so did some well needed gardening.
So it looks as though I have the right Ann, I had my fingers crossed as I have marriages for their 2 daughters, their children and even children of their daughters. Sometimes things just click into place and you find so much information, other times it is a battle.
I had the Watsons 1841 census (minus daughter Ann) but was looking under William (father) for the 1851 and couldn't find anything. (Golden rule - look under all names!!). So even though James and Ann were married it looked as though Ann went back to Morpeth to have the baby with her mother at hand while James was at South Shields with his parents, either visiting or maybe working there.

Jamjar, I think you have solved a problem for me. The 1851 census, the original has James (the elder) and also James (the younger) both living with their parents. Looking at the wording for James they are slightly different, but the younger one, it definitely is not Thomas. It is on FindMyPast transcription as James but as he isn't at home on the 1861 census (nor is Thomas) that is all I had to go on  Out of the 12 children James (the younger now known as Thomas) was the only one I could not find a birth/baptism for, now I know why. I thank you for that. He will be the next on my list to investigate. We come across these mistakes, all part of the frustration!!!
Once again I thank you both, it is all sorted out now and I can add (at the moment) over 20 more people to my tree. Much appreciated, Paul
Thompson - Stokesley, Great Ayton, Little Ayton &  Easby Nth Yorkshire. Westoe, South Shields, Gateshead
Dobson - Westoe & South Shields
Jefferson - South Shields
Rippon - Jarrow & South Shields
Purves & Harvey - South Shields

Offline Annette7

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 10:52 GMT (UK) »
If Ann was indeed born 1820, to William and Ann, she'd have been 20/21 in 1841 and was probably working at that time (probably away from home) and could have been anywhere on 1841 census.

Annette
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Offline PaulThommo

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Re: James Thompson married Ann ?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 06 November 18 11:16 GMT (UK) »
If Ann was indeed born 1820, to William and Ann, she'd have been 20/21 in 1841 and was probably working at that time (probably away from home) and could have been anywhere on 1841 census.

Annette

Thanks Annette, exactly my thoughts and as the 1841 census normally just stated the county they were born in, no help at all. I looked at Newcastle but  there were quite a few Ann Watsons, I think an impossible task but to be honest not important after finding out that I had the right Ann and can now add her, and family, to my tree. Paul
Thompson - Stokesley, Great Ayton, Little Ayton &  Easby Nth Yorkshire. Westoe, South Shields, Gateshead
Dobson - Westoe & South Shields
Jefferson - South Shields
Rippon - Jarrow & South Shields
Purves & Harvey - South Shields