Author Topic: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.  (Read 22933 times)

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #153 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:18 BST (UK) »
This next is an extract, it is just one of many examples from many records that hold clues, it shows you how to look beyond the narrative, beyond records stated, these Gipsies in the story next have the measure of their man, in walking away the writer expresses his thoughts on the encounter, yet like many before and many today the writer is the one who failed, yet it is them who write the story of tomorrow, what of the Gipsies, they saw your man of many questions for what he was, this would have been the true enccounters down through the yeares, the truth lays in the crumbs of history that we in this time get to read now, it is for everyone to say their own peace, many people throughout history have wrote of or had there say in this time and the past about families of Gipsies, many have told of their research and then their thoughts about genealogy,  this is now my day, my research, The Bluetts in the story below are no different from many Gipsies throughout history, the writer is making a big statement regarding of how he sees things when judging the mind of the Gipsies, he was narrating from a high station of selfworth, many writers and so-called scholars think they have this self rightouse educated knowledge, in truth they hold nothing, narrator's of nonsensical accumulated knowledge that just proves the need for everyone in this time to search for themselves

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #154 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:23 BST (UK) »
 
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/39665/39665-h/39665-h.htm
 

BY WALTER SIMSON.
  A
HISTORY OF THE GIPSIES:
 1866.
extract

At St Boswell’s fair I once inspected a horde of English Gipsies, encamped at the side of a hedge, on the Jedburgh road as it enters St. Boswell’s Green. Their name was Blewett, from the neighbourhood of Darlington. The chief possessed two tents, two large carts laden with earthenware, four horses and mules, and five large dogs. He was attended by two old females and ten young children. One of the women was the mother of fourteen, and the other the mother of fifteen, children. This chief and the two females were the most swarthy and barbarous looking people I ever saw. They had, however, two beautiful children with them, about five years of age, with light flaxen hair, and very fair complexions. The old Gipsy women said they were twins; but they might have been stolen from different parents, for all that, as there was nothing about them that had the slightest resemblance to any one of the horde that claimed them. Apparently much care was taken of them, as they were very cleanly and neatly kept.
This Gipsy potter was a thick-set, stout man, above the middle size. He was dressed in an old dark-blue frock coat, with a profusion of black, greasy hair, which covered the upper part of his broad shoulders. He wore a high-crowned, narrow-brimmed, old hat, with a lock of his black hair hanging down before each ear, in the same manner as the Spanish Gipsies are described by Swinburn. He also wore a pair of old full-topped boots, pressed half way down his legs, and wrinkled about his ankles, like buskins. His visage was remarkably dark and gloomy. He walked up and down the market alone, without speaking to any one, with a peculiar air of independence about him, as he twirled in his hand, in the Gipsy manner, by way of amusement, a strong bludgeon, about three feet long, which he held by the centre. I happened to be speaking to a surgeon in the fair, at the time the Gipsy passed me, when I observed to him that that strange-looking man was a Gipsy; at which the surgeon only laughed, and said he did not believe any such thing. To satisfy him, I followed the Gipsy, at a little distance, till he led me straight to his tents at the Jedburgh road already mentioned.
This Gipsy band had none of their wares unpacked, nor were they selling anything in the market. They were cooking a lamb’s head and pluck, in a pan suspended from a triangle of rods of iron, while beside it lay an abundance of small potatoes, in a wooden dish. The females wore black Gipsy bonnets. The visage of the oldest one was remarkably long, her chin resting on her breast. These three old Gipsies were, altogether, so dark, grim, and outlandish-looking, that they had little or no appearance of being natives of Britain. On enquiring if they were Gipsies, and could speak the language, the oldest female gave me the following answer: “We are potters, and strangers in this land. The people are civil unto us. I say, God bless the people; God bless them all.” She spoke these words in a decided, emphatic, and solemn tone, as if she believed herself possessed of the power to curse or bless at pleasure. On turning my back, to leave them, I observed them burst out a laughing; making merry, as I supposed, at the idea of having deceived me as to the tribe to which they belonged.

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #155 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:30 BST (UK) »

This is a Map of the area that I am researching it is of most importance to study this location, search across the border to yetholm, read the on-line free books that I put links to, try and read all the history of these books, amass as much knowledge as you can, you must read of Scotland, in the books I show you there are many families, all this will help you to formulate what will become to you the truth, you can zoom into the map to see more details, all these locations the Winters traveled

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northumberland/@55.0290538,-1.5475277,10.47z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487d857e0c6f64cd:0xbfbaeefce462c499!8m2!3d55.2082542!4d-2.0784138

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #156 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:34 BST (UK) »
 


http://www.gutenberg.org/files/46015/46015-h/46015-h.htm
THE
GYPSY’S PARSON
HIS EXPERIENCES AND ADVENTURES

 
BY

The Rev. GEORGE HALL

RECTOR OF RUCKLAND, LINCOLNSHIRE
1915

extract

One day I was exploring the city of Durham, for my early life in Lincoln had imbued me with a love of old architecture, and the nave of Durham minster profoundly gratified my love of the sombre, when, lo, just over the way, I saw a weather-beaten  (living-van), and near it was the owner, looking up and down the street as if expecting someone to appear.  Crossing the road, I greeted the Gypsy, who turned out to be one of the Winters, a North-Country family to whom has been applied (not without reason) the epithet “wild,” and I remembered how Hoyland, in his Historical Survey of the Gypsies, had written—
“The distinguished Northern poet, Walter Scott, who is Sheriff of Selkirkshire, has in a very obliging manner communicated the following statement—‘ . . . some of the most atrocious families have been extirpated.  I allude to the Winters, a Northumberland clan, who, I fancy, are all buried by this time.’”
But Sheriff Scott was wrong.
The Winters had only changed their haunts, and on being driven out of the Border Country had moved southward.
As I stood chatting with Mr. Winter, his handsome wife came up with a hawking-basket on her arm.  I shall always remember her in connection with a story she told me.
“One day I was sitting on a bank under a garden hedge.  It was a hot day and I was very thirsty.  I said aloud, ‘Oh, for a drink of beer.’  Just then a voice came over the hedge, a nice, clear, silvery voice it was, like as if an angel from heaven was a-talking to me—‘You shall have one, my dearie.’  And in a minute or two a kind lady came down with a big jug of beer.  How I did bless that lady for her kindness to a poor Gypsy, and I drank the lot.  About a month afterwards, I heard of the death of that lady, and I vowed to myself and to the (lady’s spirit) that I would never touch another drop of beer as long as I lived, and I never have done and never will no more.”


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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #157 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:41 BST (UK) »
 
 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29063/29063-h/29063-h.htm
 


A  HISTORICAL SURVEY of the CUSTOMS, HABITS, & PRESENT STATe of The Gypsies; designed to develope The Origin of this Singular People, and to promote The Amelioration of their Condition.


BY JOHN HOYLAND,
 
 
1816.
 
 
 

extract


The distinguished northern Poet, Walter Scott, who is Sheriff of Selkirkshire, has in a very obliging manner communicated the following statement:
“A set of people possessing the same erratic habits, and practising the trade of tinkers, are well known in the Borders; and have often fallen under the cognisance of the law.  They are often called Gypsies, and pass through the county annually in small bands, with their carts and asses.  The men are tinkers, poachers, and thieves upon a small scale.  They also sell crockery, deal in old rags, in eggs, in salt, in tobacco and such trifles; and manufacture horn into spoons, I believe most of those who come through Selkirkshire, reside, during winter, in the villages of Sterncliff and Spittal, in Northumberland, and in that of Kirk Yetholm, Roxburghshire.
“Mr. Smith, the respectable Baillie of Kelso, can give the most complete information concerning those who reside at Kirk Yetholm.  Formerly, I believe, they were much more desperate in their conduct than at present.  But some of the most atrocious families have been extirpated, I allude particularly to the Winters, a Northumberland clan, who I fancy are all buried by this time.
“Mr. Reddell, Justice of Peace for Roxburghshire, with my assistance and concurrence, cleared this country of the last of them, about eight or nine years ago.  They were thorough desperadoes, of the worst class of vagabonds.  Those who now travel through this country, give offence chiefly by poaching, and small thefts.  They are divided into clans, the principal names being Faa, Baillie, Young, Ruthven, and Gordon.
“All of them are perfectly ignorant of religion, nor do their children receive any education.  They marry and cohabit amongst each other, and are held in a sort of horror by the common people.
“I do not conceive them to be the proper Oriental Egyptian race, at least they are much intermingled with our own national out-laws and vagabonds.  They are said to keep up a communication with each other through Scotland, and to have some internal government and regulation as to the districts which each family travels.

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #158 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:49 BST (UK) »
This is one of the many records that I have found for my own research then through reading through old books and other researchers words you may then join them up and form the bigger picture, I just put extracts on so you yourself may go on the link and read the more in-depth writings of others, its only right, I could just easily join the thoughts up of others and say that these are my words, I try and show all the writers who have wrote their own words, offten you will see how one record leads back to another older one, often to people just copy mistakes so by presenting and reading as much knowledge as you can find the odds are you will be closer to the real truth




 Wednesday 02 May 1838
 Globe
  London
 
Crime Families—William Winter's Family. —Winter himself, and one of his sons, were hanged together for murder. Another son committed an offence for which he was sent to the hulks ; and, soon after his release, was concerned in a murder, for which he was hanged. Three of the daughters were convicted of various offences; and the mother was a woman of notoriously bad  character. The family was a terror to the neighbourhood; and, according to report, had been for generations. The father, with the woman with whom he cohabited (himself a married  man), was hanged for housebreaking. His first wife was a woman of very bad character, and his second wife was transported. One of the sons was a notorious ; thief, and two of the daughters were hanged for murder. Mr. Blake believes that  the only member. of his family that turned out well was a girl, who was taken from the father when he was in prison; previously to execution,  and brought up apart from her brothers and sisters. The grandfather was once in a lunatic asylum as a madman. The father had a quarrel with one of his sons about the sale of some property, and shot him dead. The mother cohabited with another man, and was one morning found dead with her throat cut. One of the sons (not he already spoken of) had a child by one of his cousins, herself of weak intellect ; and, being under suspicion of having destroyed the child, was arrested. While in prison, however, and before the trial came on, he destroyed himself by cutting his throat. .—Report on the Prisons of Northumberland.

Now on the next page read of how a writer years ago also found this story and then expanded the truth

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #159 on: Monday 13 April 20 19:51 BST (UK) »
 
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/39665/39665-h/39665-h.htm

A
HISTORY OF THE GIPSIES:
BY WALTER SIMSON.
EDITED, WITH
PREFACE, INTRODUCTION, AND NOTES, AND A DISQUISITION ON THE
PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE OF GIPSYDOM,
BY JAMES SIMSON.
 
 1866.

extract

The crimes of some of the English Gipsies have greatly exceeded those of the Scottish, such as the latter have been.The following details of the history of an English Gipsy family are taken from a report on the prisons in Northumberland. The writer of this report does not appear to have been aware, however, of the family in question being Gipsies, speaking an Oriental language, and that, according to the custom of their tribe, a dexterous theft or robbery is one of the most meritorious actions they can perform.
“Crime in Families. William Winters’ Family.
“William himself, and one of his sons, were hanged together for murder. Another son committed an offence for which he was sent to the hulks, and, soon after his release, was concerned in a murder, for which he was hanged. Three of the daughters were convicted of various offences, and the mother was a woman of notorious bad character. The family was a terror to the neighbourhood, and, according to report, had been so for generations. The father, with a woman with whom he cohabited, (himself a married man,) was hanged for house-breaking. His first wife was a woman of very bad character, and his second wife was transported. One of the sons, a notorious thief, and two of the daughters, were hanged for murder. Mr. Blake believes that the only member of the family that turned out well was a girl, who was taken from the father when he was in prison, previous to execution, and brought up apart from her brothers and sisters. The grandfather was once in a lunatic asylum, as a madman. The father had a quarrel with one of his sons, about the sale of some property, and shot him dead. The mother co-habited with another man, and was one morning found dead, with her throat cut. One of the sons, (not already spoken of,) had a bastard child by one of his cousins, herself of weak intellect, and, being under suspicion of having destroyed the child, was arrested. While in prison, however, and before the trial came on, he destroyed himself by cutting his throat.”
This family, I believe, are the Winters noticed by Sir Walter Scott, in Blackwood’s Magazine, as follows:   
“A gang (of Gipsies), of the name of Winters, long inhabited the wastes of Northumberland, and committed many crimes; among others, a murder upon a poor woman, with singular atrocity, for which one of them was hung in chains near Tonpitt, in Reedsdale. The mortal reliques having decayed, the lord of the manor has replaced them by a wooden effigy, and still maintains the gibbet. The remnant of this gang came to Scotland, about fifteen years ago, and assumed the Roxburghshire name of Wintirip, as they found their own something odious. They settled at a cottage within about four miles of Earlston, and became great plagues to the country, until they were secured, after a tight battle, tried before the circuit court at Jedburgh, and banished back to their native country of England. The dalesmen of Reedwater showed great reluctance to receive these returned emigrants. After the Sunday service at a little chapel near Otterbourne, one of the squires rose, and, addressing the congregation, told them they would be accounted no longer Reedsdale men, but Reedsdale women, if they permitted this marked and atrocious family to enter their district. The people answered that they would not permit them to come that way; and the proscribed family, hearing of the unanimous resolution to oppose their passage, went more southernly, by the heads of the Tyne, and I never heard more of them, but I have little doubt they are all hanged. [50]

[50]It is but just to say that this family of Winters is, or at least was, the worst kind of English Gipsies. Their name is a by-word among the race in England. When they say, “It’s a winter morning,” they wish to express something very bad. It is difficult to get them to admit that the Winters belong to the tribe—ED.

 
 
 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-fQ7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=%E2%80%9CA+gang+(of+Gipsies),+of+the+name+of+Winters,+long+inhabited+the+wastes+of+Northumberland&source=bl&ots=QB09C0z4e2&sig=ACfU3U3jgnmUpPe6hESsojqBGHjoTK3kEw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwju8pmLrOfoAhWdQxUIHfyJDRMQ6AEwAnoECAsQNQ

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #160 on: Monday 13 April 20 20:07 BST (UK) »
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TGJiAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=%E2%80%9CA+gang+(of+Gipsies),+of+the+name+of+Winters,+long+inhabited+the+wastes+of+Northumberland&source=bl&ots=GmJyo6ur4F&sig=ACfU3U1Rrz73SV8WcqQHPr9YOxwKs13FxA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwju8pmLrOfoAhWdQxUIHfyJDRMQ6AEwBXoECAsQRA

read all about the Winters in this book above from 1828... the life of james Allen the Northumberland Piper
 



I will put a few links on next for people to read, this is very important for everyone to know how many storeys about a subject or occurrence hold a great deal of history but I have found that you must read as many storeys about a single happening to be able to learn more of the truth, evan then all or part may be wrong never the less read and research as much as you can, through this way the bigger picture of everything may come into view, one story holds so many accounts yet leaves out other details, by reading several accounts over the years of one story you get to learn much more, see yourself if you can read through these three links below and find how they all hold differences yet by combing them you may then evaluate in a better mind, i am trying my best to research in the right way. to find everything possible about geanology of the people i seak

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #161 on: Monday 13 April 20 21:26 BST (UK) »
 
https://englandsnortheast.co.uk/redesdale/

extract

Winter’s Gibbet
An unclassified road from Elsdon to Wallington and Morpeth follows the course of an old straight ‘as an arrow’s flight’ drove road south eastwards, where it passes the site of Steng cross, an old medieval guiding post. 
In the vicinity of Steng Cross, near to the roadside is the eerie site of a gibbet or ‘stob’. Known as Winter’s Gibbet, it was from here that the body of a certain William Winter was hung, following his execution at Westgate, Newcastle in 1791. Winter, a gypsy, had been executed for the murder of an old woman………….. 
The old woman ran a small drapery store in the neighbourhood, which led Winter to believe she was wealthy. 

http://rothbury.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/pdf/around_rothbury(march2014).pdf

extracts
                                                                 
Around about Rothbury 

Winters Gibbet

Elsdon is a small village about 12 miles west of Rothbury. And although not strictly speaking part of Coquetdale is near enough to figure in these pages. On August 10th 1792 William Winter, Jane & Eleanor Clark were executed at the Westgate, Newcastle for the murder of…………………. 

William Gardner had been sentenced to death for the crime of sheep stealing in Northumberland and agreed to be the executioner of Winter and the Clarke sisters. For this service he was reprieved and his sentence reduced to transportation to New South Wales for seven years ………………

whilst the body of William Winter was hung in chains on Whiskershields Common, a few miles south of Elsdon……………………………….   

 There is a story that a local wag erected a miniature gibbet on the spot with a sign proclaiming that given the current rainfall it would soon grow. Sure enough it is now full size, This new gibbet was dedicated to the late Miss Annie Elliott by the Green Men of Harwood as a small tribute to her "good nature and ebullient humour". Unfortunately that one disappeared also………………… 
But who was Winter? William Winter seems to have sprung from Gypsy stock and was the end of a long line of criminals………………..   

 And the sequel to this sad tale: Raw Pele, the scene of the murder was never again lived in, and the tower became part of the farm buildings, although much changed. The chief witness, a boy called Robert Hindmarsh (sometimes known as Robert Hymers) feared gypsy vengeance and moved out of the area; first to Bywell and then to Aberdeen. He eventually returned to his home, only to die in September 1803 at the age of only twenty-two. Local parish registers, however, indicate that his date of death was 14th November 1800, aged 20…………….   Legend has it that Winter was identified by Hindmarsh from the nail patterns on the soles of his boots. But as his deposition stated that Winter remained standing all the time that he was observed by Hindmarsh…………….   It should be remembered that this story is shrouded in the mists of time and many legends have grown up around it. The above "facts" have been gleaned from many sources and are open to interpretation. The most reliable source today is Redfern, a retired policemen, who…………………………………… 


http://www.executedtoday.com/2014/08/10/1792-william-winter-elsdon-moor-gibbet-habitue/
extract
At the base of the Winters Gibbet sits a stone that was once the base of a Saxon cross that gave Steng Cross its name — an old medieval marker on the road from Elsdon to Wallington and Morpeth.