Author Topic: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.  (Read 1123 times)

Offline whiteout7

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 25 November 18 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Tuesday 02 March 1920
Nottingham Evening Post

A BASFORD APPOINTMENT
... Defense. Mr. H. B. Clayton said Bacon was a demobilized soldier who had been wounded and gassed and could not follow his employment as a miner. Was only able to earn about a pound a week as a scrap iron dealer. The cause of the trouble was Mrs. Bacon's betting   

This is interesting, looking in the "British Army medal index cards 1914-1920" I wonder if this could be the Charles Bacon you mention

Medal card of Bacon, Charles. Corps: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment. Regiment No: 7576. Rank: Private.
War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War. A'Alezu - Barnes C E. Medal card of Bacon, Charles. Corps Regiment No Rank Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 7576 Private. Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment 269355 Private. Royal Engineers 487957 Private.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1103104

Being a Miner before the war, he would have had extra skills in tunneling ....
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 25 November 18 23:33 GMT (UK) »

I think there were two Ambrose Bacon's in the war from up my way, one died and one lived on
 

Looking in the "British Army medal index cards 1914-1920 there seems to be only one Ambrose Bacon and that is the one that died as the service number matches

Medal card of Bacon, Ambrose
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment   59552   Private
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1102930

So not sure if there was another one, maybe? Always possible some men left off?

I think your thread is a great idea, as it is hard to prove the service of these men, pretty much you need to find evidence of living in caravans or no fixed abode to prove Roma/Traveller heritage

Not many of them have been researched!

Could be a long thread

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #11 on: Monday 26 November 18 20:10 GMT (UK) »
Helo Mel

Thank you for your writings, i have more information on Ambrose and the other Bacon's, i will put it all on soon, i have been looking hard to find things to put on for the relatives of John Cunningham, i would like to find as many people as i can and also just put up a few words for each person who in some way went through the war years, i want to help people to understand the truth and learn about the Genealogy history of their family, i may gets things wrong at times but i try with a good heart to help people who look for people connected to the Gipsies that in some way ended up in the war in any sort of way, there was two Ambrose Bacon's i am sure, maybe three, they all lived in vans, i will show you soon and then maybe you may be able to help me, you are a good writer and a fine person, well done for being you, i will next write a few words for the relatives of John Cunningham then write for the relatives of the Bacons, then i will write of a great man named Scamp, he will be next after the Bacon's, i have found lots of names i do not know what happened to them in the war, did they die or did they live, well some lived for i think i have found story's after the war of some of them, anyway thank you again for your kind guidance, i am writing mostly for the dead people, if the relatives like the things i find that is good but mostly i write for the dead, i understand all of them, everything of the past i understand, lots of things i find some people if not all are frightend of the truth and these things of the past, i think sometimes people of today wish to live in a dream of the past, if you are proud you should be proud of the truth, i will write back maybe next week with what i have found.

michael

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #12 on: Monday 26 November 18 20:25 GMT (UK) »
John Cunningham it is wrote had two brother who also in some way ended up in the war, one was turned away for being to young i do not know if he later went back in the army, the other one was just trying to get on with his life the best way he could but he was taken away to be in the army like lots of people in those times, if anybody who reads these words goes on the link to the Dan Boswell thread at the beginning of these post you may read lots of the writings i wrote explaining what went on and why, i may rewrite some words at the end of this reseach to help people to know how the Gipsy people were treated very hard back the times of the war, i do not think the truth as ever been told, the three Cunninghams are now along with Ambrose and Charles Bacon on the.....

GIPSIES
ROLL OF HONOUR
WORLD WAR ONE
28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918.
 
THOMAS CUNNINGHAM
MATHEW CUNNINGHAM
JOHN 'JACK' CUNNINGHAM VC
AMBROSE BACON
CHARLES BACON


Wednesday 17 January 1917
 Newcastle Journal

From Pot Hawker to V.C. There was much satisfaction expressed Hull at the award, already announced in The Journal, of the Victoria Cross Private John. Cunningham, East Yorkshire Regiment, youth nineteen. He is a member a family well-known throughout the East Riding as a pot hawker. Prior to the war Young Cunningham assisted his parents and travelled with them from village to village in their caravan. When on the last home leave Cunningham related how he went alone to the enemy communication trench. and killed with bombs a party of ten enemy soldiers. and also fetched in Germans, who begged for mercy when they saw him come back with fresh of bombs, and added “that he always liked a bit sport.”
 


 Monday 15 January 1917
 Globe


 The Gallant East Yorkshireman, Pte. John Cunningham, who has won the V.C. for charging a trench single-handed and killing ten Germans, is only 19 years old. He belongs to Hull Kitchener battalion and lives in Edgar-street, in that city. He was 17 when he Joined the East Yorkshires, and his brother Matthew enlisted at the same time, but being only 15, was afterwards discharged. Before the war Cunningham was a hawker. When home on his last leave the hero told the story of the act for which has been awarded the V.C., and said he also brought in 90 Germans. Who begged for mercy when they saw him come back with a fresh supply of bombs. He added “that he always liked a bit of sport.”

  Friday 21 December 1923
  Sheffield Daily Telegraph

COLONEL APPEAL LOR HULL V.C. Jack Cunningham, the Hull V.C., who follows the occupation of a hawker, was summoned before the County Magistrates at Hull, for leaving his horse and cart unattended.
 

Monday 20 May 1918
  Nottingham Journal
 
 NOTTINGHAM MAN ABRESTED AS A DESERTER. Thomas Cunningham, described as. native of Nottingham, and brother of Private John Cunningham, a Hull V.C., charged Hull, on Saturday, with haying been an absentee from the Army since November. Lieutenant Griffith ...
 the National Service representative, said that the defendant who is 34, and a
general dealer had been travelling about the country, and the authorities had had considerable trouble in tracing him. His V.C. brother was in a London hospital, wounded; and his parents, travelling hawkers, were present in-court. The policeman who arrested Cunningham said that in reply to the charge declared: “ I am going when I have tipped this load of iron”. Cunningham was remanded for escort.
 




 

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #13 on: Monday 26 November 18 20:41 GMT (UK) »
When i started to first look for information about relatives as it is stated, well i know it is very hard to find things and not many people try to help you, i have learned so much that proved everything that i was told of the past, all the Gipsy people of the past had a very hard life but they were hard with it, very proud and knowledgeable to this game that we call life, i respect them all, i have just tryed my best to find a few writings that may connect the Cunninghams of the war yeares to the past, inturn also helping their relatives of today, they are a great  Gipsy family, i have found lots but only will put these few things on that may connect them, i was trying to find out about them dealing in china and pots like the proud Cunninghams of the war yeares, i know they would of also of done lots of things but pot hawking they sure did like, i may have some things wrong but i hope these words of the Cunninghams of the past will help the relatives of today.

Everything below are just extracts.

michael

Thursday 26 November 1908
 Sheffield Evening Telegraph

Pot, Brick, Glass, Crash! The Stipendiary had to deal with two people who were charged with breaking glass panels in doors. Both the cases came from West Bar Green. Benjamin Cunningham, a pot hawker, of Garden Street.

  Monday 11 June 1894
  Yorkshire Evening Post

A Gipsy's Death near Harrogate.—Early on Sunday morning Jas. Cunningham, pot hawker, of no fixed residence, died somewhat suddenly in his travelling van about a mile from Beckwithshaw, near Harrogate. 


  Saturday 08 January 1881
  Nottingham Journal

Thomas Cunningham, 23, potter, and Joseph Cunningham, were charged with stealing a quantity of majolica ware Crowle, on the September. Acquitted. 

  Friday 11 November 1870
  Nottinghamshire Guardian

near Pontefract, by which a poor woman met with her death at the hands of her husband It appears that a pot hawker named James Cunningham, aged 35 years, resided with his wife Jane, of the same age, at Greenhouses, Knottinley. 
 
  Saturday 07 July 1866
  Chester Chronicle

 Henry Cunningham, earthenware dealer of West Hartlepool, committed suicide on Sunday afternoon by cutting his throat during his wife's absence.
 
Saturday 20 April 1850
  Leeds Intelligencer

James Cunningham, itinerant pot dealer from Staffordshire, was placed in the dock at the Guildhall...
 
 Saturday 06 September 1845
 Yorkshire Gazette

Death by Bathing at Whitby.—A person named John Cunningham, dealer in pots, belonging to the neighbourhood of Kirby Moorside, was drowned in Whitby Harbour on Wednesday afternoon. 
   
Thursday 11 January 1838
 Bradford Observer
 
COURT-HOUSE. Friday — The Tables Turned. —Mary Howard was charged by Henry Cunningham, with stealing his watch. The parties are both dealers in pots.
 
Friday 28 November 1834
  Durham County Advertiser

—Same day and place, Jane, wife of Mr James Cunningham, dealer in glass and earthenware, aged 26. Sherburn House, near this city….. 
   
 
  Saturday 28 April 1821
  Yorkshire Gazette

RECOGNIZANCES. EAST-RiDiNG of the County of York. THE following Persons having entered into Recognizances to  Appear and Answer.
Thomas Cunningham, of Norton, hawker, for the appearance of himself and Mary, his wife.
 

 


 Saturday 15 November 1783
 Newcastle Chronicle
  Northumberland,

 DESCRIPTION. Two Men who are much of having been particularly in this Burglary, Names are Robert and Henry Cunningham, who are now lodged in Durham Goal for that Offence the other two who are their Accomplices are at Liberty; their  Names are James Greg’s and Geo. Patterson.—Gregs about 30 Years of Age   James travels about the Country as a Tinker or a Potter. (who is to one of the Cunninghams) Conviction of any of the Gang, a Reward of TWENTY GUINEAS is hereby offered to be paid upon such of the Conviction of any one or more of them.
 

   
 Saturday 26 January 1782
  Newcastle Courant
  Northumberland,

  January 10th. 1782 THREE PERSONS (Part of a Gang of Thieves) in PRISON here. A Man who calls himself  HENRY CUNNINGHAM, appears about years 5 f 9  high a  dark swarthy complexion, thin faced, has black full eyes, long black rough hair wounds healing and scars , missing fingers...  He says he was born at Wigton. Cumberland,  Pitman, but for the last ten years has travelled the country, and sold earthen pots and mugs in summer, and coopered and mended lamhorns in winter.  His principal residence hath of late been at Bishops Auckland
 
  Fri 24 May 1751
  Derby Mercury

 General Howard's Regiment of Dragoons, since they have been quartered at Norwich, have taken the following Smugglers within three Months. Robert Young, alias Catchpole,  Galloway Tom, John and William Cunningham, and Clark, alias Plunder. The two Cunningham's, and another Brother not yet taken, are charged with being concerned in plundering and robbing .
 

 Fri 25 Mar 1748
  Derby Mercury

Robert Cunningham, a notorious Smuggler, was committed to Newgate by Thomas Burdus, Esq; for being concerned in robbing the Custom House at Poole on the 7th of October last.   
 

 Sat 11 Aug 1739
  Newcastle Courant
  Northumberland,


  Committed to Morpeth Jail William Cunningham, and Mary Wilson, otherwise Cunningham, are commuted to the Said prison, on Suspicion of Murder. 


 
   


Offline whiteout7

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 07:10 GMT (UK) »
I would be quite interesting to know which one of John 'Jack' Cunnigham's brothers this article was writen about:

"RISKED LIFE FOR OTHERS. SCUNTHORPE PRESENTATION TO V.C.'S BROTHER. (FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT  The part played by Scunthorpe man in assisting to save the lives of his brother and two other men
Tuesday 03 June 1930
Hull Daily Mail

"RISKED LIFE FOR OTHERS
timber struck his brother, Joe, and two other men working on a steel girder 95 feet above the ground. They were in danger of falling, when Cunningham rushed across a 23-inch plank, helped pull them to safety, and then carried his brother"
Tuesday 03 June 1930
Hull Daily Mail

You'd have to be brave to work 95 feet above ground

So was there a Joseph Cunnigham amongst the brothers too? Maybe?
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 21:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mel

 The brother in the story is named Fred, so there were many brothers of John, many of them live in the same area in Hull, lots of Cunninghams in the same street, i wander how many of the Cunninghams went to the war, if you find any Cunninghams from Hull in the war records there is a good chance they will be related to John, these below are more extracts of how people can use these records to locate their relatives and learn the bigger picture of the times of which they lived, the Cunninghams are without dout a great family rich in history, i have found many many records of them, i would suggest any relatives who read these words must sign up straight away to the newspaper archives and research the Cunninghams, they are to me a great Gipsy family, i have found marriage, birth and death records over the yeares and many story's that to bring in more names that will help all who research the Cunninghams, after the war John Cunningham as a rough old time of it, i am sure from what i have been reading the war yeares played their part in sculpturing out his later yeares, i may put story's on about his life after the war, or i may just leave it there for his relatives to find, they must join the newspaper archives and find what i have been reading, i will next talk of the Bacon's, i must talk for them to find answers about the war, then i will move on to the next Gipsy Hero, his name is Scamp, the Gipsy from the South.

Extracts.

Tuesday 03 June 1930
Hull Daily Mail

 "was recognised at Crosby Council School, Scunthorpe, on Monday, when a gold medal, subscribed for by the teachers and past and present scholars, was presented by Alderman R. Jones, J.P., to Fred Cunningham (27), of Berkeley-street, Scunthorpe. In February this year, Cunningham was working on a building in course of erection on the Dorchester House site, London when a piece of falling timber struck his brother, Joe.......... Cunningham is brother of private John Cunningham, the Scunthorpe, V.C."

Wednesday 21 May 1930
  Hull Daily Mail

LEAD STOLEN AT HESSLE
... After being remanded for seven days from the last East Court, Charles and Frank Cunningham,  brothers, of Edgar-street, hessle-road, and Thomas Cunningham (19), a cousin, Williams-place, again appeared at East Riding Court to-day...
   
Tuesday 21 November 1933
 Hull Daily Mail

 Mr Daniel Cunningham, an uncle of Private John Cunningham, the only Scunthorpe-born V.C., and well known in Hull, has died at his home, Sheffield Street, Scunthorpe, at the age 76. Mr Cunningham was a hawker by trade.
 
  Wednesday 24 May 1933
  Hull Daily Mail

The Mail is asked to state that the Charles Cunningham who admitted breaking a window in a recent court case, which John Cunningham, the Hull V.C., was fined £1, is not his brother but a more distant relation of the family...
 
 Tuesday 16 May 1933
  Hull Daily Mail

 
... HULL MAN INJURED Said to have sustained his injuries as the result of a fight in Adelaide-street, Hull, last night, Irwin George, aged 30, of the Boulevard, is the  nephew of Jack Cunningham, Hull.....

Offline whiteout7

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #16 on: Friday 30 November 18 07:49 GMT (UK) »
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/

There are 19 men with the surname Scamp that were awarded medals for defending the British empire in WW1. I wonder how many were of Romany origin

Alfred Riley Scamp (L/8117) and his brother Samuel Scamp (2946) have been well researched ...
http://www.eastsussexww1.org.uk/gypsy-traveller-community-ww1/

But what about the others?
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline panished

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Re: World War One. Gipsy Roll of Honour.
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 02 February 19 12:13 GMT (UK) »
 Hi Mel

Thanyou for the names that you have put up, i did say first i wanted to find out about the Bacon's, i am sure there was at least two Ambrose's, i will put up some of the records next then hopefully their relations may use what i find and discover what i have not, the Gipsy who's name was Scamp from WW1 who i was talking about is Riley, in your posts they say he died in the War, there must have been a few for i have seen a record of Riley dieing in the 1920s, the Riley i found may be a different Scamp to the Alfred Riley Scamp you found, i will put everything i have found about the Scamps on soon, i have been looking at thousands of records these last few weeks. These below are a few of the records of Riley Scamp, i have been researching storey's about the war for a few yeares, from what i have found people of today are blind to the past, i will try my best to talk for the Dead Gipsies so people of today realise the truth of the past.

Saturday 08 October 1927 
 Thanet Advertiser
  Kent.... every record below just EXTRACTS

Familiar figure passes
Riley Scamp dead
Scamp, the well-known scissor and knife-grinder, who had for so many years quietly plied his trade in Ramsgate, had passed. Riley Scamp—he was was one of the most Unobtrusive men you was ever to meet.. He through life doing his job efficiently and without any noise, save just the winning on the wheel as in response to the pedal movement, the grindstone revolved and the knife that prior to treatment would not in the common phrase cut butter, and the scissors which had caused many “Drat it!” in a humble British home were with payment of a modest fee, returned to their owners like a new razor blade. The death of Riley Scamp recalls the events of the triangular election……………..

Saturday 10 February 1917
 Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald
  Kent

AN ABSENTEE.—At the Police Court on Saturday, before Mr. E. T. Ward (in the chair), and Mr. H. Kirke, Riley Scamp was charged on remand with being an absentee under the Military Service Act.—P.C. Styles and Sergt Young, of “The Buffs” having given evidence, prisoner was handed over to the military authorities.
 
 Saturday 03 February 1917
  Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald
  Kent
 
ALLEGED ABSENTEE—At the Folkestone Bench, yesterday, before Alderman G. Spurgen and other Magistrates, Riley Scamp pleaded not guilty to being an absentee under the Military Service Act. P.C. Styles stated that on the previous day he arrested prisoner at a gipsy camp near the Isolation Hospital. He stated that he had been attested in Essex, but had no papers and no registration card. —At the request of the Chief Constable, prisoner was remanded until Wednesday.

 Saturday 04 October 1879
  Thanet Advertiser
  Kent
 
Gilderoy Scamp, and Riley Scamp, father and son, were summoned for refusing to quit a licensed premises, on the 27 th of Sept. Gilderoy Scamp pleaded not guilty, and Riley Scamp guilty.—Mr. John Ball, landlord the Elington Arms, stated that the defendants were in his house “off and on” all the day in question. In the evening, he thought they had sufficient and he refused to serve them with any more. He then requested them to leave, but they refused to go. He afterwards got them outside of the house, but was obliged to close his house for about one hour in order to keep them out.—Eliza Godfrey, the barmaid, corroborated.—The defendants had nothing to say in answer to the charge.—The oldest defendant was fined 2s. 6d., and lls. costs, or 14 days, and Riley Scamp was fined Is., and 10s, costs, or 10 days imprisonment

 
 I will write everything of the record storey's of the Scamps after the writings of the Bacon's. So next i will finish my writings in the research of Ambrose Bacon who died in WW1 and Charles Bacon who was gassed in the trenchers, who they all are and where they come from and what is their real name or names i do not know, i do hope thoe that these researchers into the Gipsy people of WW1  helps people of today and the future to realise the truth and see the struggle they went through from being captured and taken away sometimes to die, you just would not believe all the truths i have read from these times, i hope to bring the truth up for all the Dead Gipsy People who no ones bothers to speak right for.