John Gardner Disappears 1915?

[molach95]

Hello, I really hope someone can help me with this. I am trying to trace my grandfather's grandfather, John Gardner, born in Blantyre, Lanarkshire in 1891 to Thomas Gardner and Elizabeth Devlin (later Hannigan following her 2nd marriage some time after 1914). The family seem to have moved to Paisley in Renfrewshire after Thomas's death. Their name changes to Gardiner in certain records.

John Gardner worked as a carter and appears as that in the 1911 census. He also seems to appear as a carter in Paisley in the 1915 valuation roll. I found out that he joined the Seaforth Highlanders in 1914 but was dishonourably discharged before he got to France for misconduct - this was while stationed in Petersfield in Hampshire. In his 1914 military records he claims to be unmarried and names his mother as his relative/contact.

Unfortunately that's where all records for him end, apart from the possible match in 1915 - he practically drops off the face of the earth. I can't find any reliable matches for deaths, marriages or anything via scotlandspeople.com, ancestry.co.uk or findmypast.co.uk. I don't know if he re-enlisted after 1915 and was killed, or he emigrated or even went to prison. I checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission for matches but there was nothing concrete. I have found a number of John Gardners in Scotland and across the UK that could possibly match but that's only due to lack of information and ambiguity rather than  anything relating to his details.

Is there anyone that can help me find out what happened to him after 1915? My grandfather's father was his illegitimate son and John only appears on his birth record on scotlandspeople due to some kind of correction/addition, apparently due to the insistence of my great, great grandmother who knew who must have fathered her son.

It would mean a lot to me to finally find out what happened to John as he has been a shadowy figure in my family all of my life - with the knowledge that my name should be Gardner by blood, not what it is now; we still use Gardner or names with G as middle names by tradition. I always presumed he lived a life and had another family of his own but it may be that he didn't and my family is his only legacy after all. I have so many questions unanswered due to his disappearance but I have exhausted my genealogical abilities and resources.

My apologies in advance as I was going to post in the Renfrewshire subforum but there's every chance John went elsewhere in Scotland, or abroad.

Many thanks

[Forfarian]

Their name changes to Gardiner in certain records.

It's not a change as such, just a variant spelling. Spelling was a very inexact science until into the 20th century. If you are searching on Scotland's People use the wildcard facility - g*rd*n*r should find all variants in one search.

Unfortunately that's where all records for him end, apart from the possible match in 1915 - he practically drops off the face of the earth. I can't find any reliable matches for deaths, marriages or anything via scotlandspeople.com, ancestry.co.uk or findmypast.co.uk.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0   

If you can't find it on Scotland's People you are wasting your time looking on any other web site for a death in Scotland.

I don't know if he re-enlisted after 1915 and was killed, or he emigrated or even went to prison.

If he stayed in England/Wales you could look for his death at https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search - same information as Anc*y and FindMyPast etc because they just mirror it, but I think it's easier to search.

My grandfather's father was his illegitimate son and John only appears on his birth record on scotlandspeople due to some kind of correction/addition, apparently due to the insistence of my great, great grandmother who knew who must have fathered her son.

The insistence of his mother, taken on its own, would have no effect whatsoever on the addition to the birth record.

There are only two circumstances in which a father's name appears on the birth certificate of an illegitimate child.

First, if the father accompanies the mother to the registrar's office when she goes to register the birth, and signs the certificate at the same time as she does.

Second, if a court of law orders an entry in the Register of Corrected Entries. This is usually following an action for paternity in the sheriff court, but there could be other reasons. You might be able to find the court records - the RCE should tell you which court and when, and the case might be indexed at https://www.scottishindexes.com/contact.aspx

It does look to me as if he must have emigrated and/or changed his name.

[molach95]

Thank you so much Forfarian, you've been extremely helpful.

It's not a change as such, just a variant spelling. Spelling was a very inexact science until into the 20th century. If you are searching on Scotland's People use the wildcard facility - g*dr*n*r should find all variants in one search.

Thanks for this, I'll make sure to use the wildcard facility as much as I can. I was using fuzzy matching as it seemed to pick up Gardner and Gardiner but there could be other variants.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0   

If you can't find it on Scotland's People you are wasting your time looking on any other web site for a death in Scotland.

The only reason why I was using findmypast and ancestry was for the military records and in case someone had him in their public tree. That did bear fruit as I was able to get the record for his discharge, including physical info (he was just 5 ft 4 and 9 and a half stone!) and the fact he was Protestant, even though my family is Catholic. I wouldn't spend money on them for my Scots family though; I managed to get the information from my local library's free service. I'll remember to concentrate on scotlandspeople for the essentials - birth, death, marriage etc.

If he stayed in England/Wales you could look for his death at https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search - same information as Anc*y and FindMyPast etc because they just mirror it, but I think it's easier to search.

This is really handy, many thanks.

Second, if a court of law orders an entry in the Register of Corrected Entries. This is usually following an action for paternity in the sheriff court, but there could be other reasons. You might be able to find the court records - the RCE should tell you which court and when, and the case might be indexed at https://www.scottishindexes.com/contact.aspx

Thank you so much for this. I've just ordered/bought a copy of the sheriff court record for the paternity action instigated by my great grandmother against John, c.1913. That should hopefully come within a few weeks, according to the site.

It does look to me as if he must have emigrated and/or changed his name.

Do you have any advice for what I could do to find him if he did indeed emigrate or change his name?

[Forfarian]

It does look to me as if he must have emigrated and/or changed his name.

Do you have any advice for what I could do to find him if he did indeed emigrate or change his name?

If he changed his name, no.

If he emigrated to NZ or some parts of Australia, there are death indexes online
New Zealand https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
New South Wales https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-research-nsw.aspx
Victoria https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
Queensland https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research
South Australia https://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html
West Australia https://www.bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

but if he went to the USA and Canada and there's nothing in FamilySearch or on Anc*y, I don't know where else I'd look.

[carolineasb]

Can I ask what you are being told you will get when you have ordered the "Sheriff Court Record" which I assume you are purchasing from Scottish Indexes?

You do know that the details of the Decree granted in the Court are in the RCE attached to the Birth Certificate and is free from Scotland's People when you have downloaded the Birth Certificate?

[Fogmoose]

I know this is a long shot, but I have relatives with the last name Gardiner who emigrated to South Africa not much later than this person seems to have disappeared. I don't mean to say they are in any way related to your Gardiner, but perhaps you want to take a look in the South African records? Perhaps there was some strange reason that people with the name Gardiner were drawn to SA?!! LOL. Good luck!