Ellen Gibson Sproul

[mongojoby]

Hi all

Over the years, every now and then I've do a google search for the illusive Ellen/Helen Gibson Sproul, and last week came across an exciting discovery via the Paisley Poor Law records.

For over 10 years I have been trying to find more about her after she disappears post 1881 census (see https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=352622.msg2306358#msg2306358).

The Poor Law record suggests she ended up in Govan workhouse in 1889, along with a fourth illegitimate child that I was unaware of before obtaining the record (her other three are in Coventry at this time).

Details as follows:
Ellen / Helen Gibson Sproul abt 1852, Paisley.
John Sproul, born 25 Lambshill St, Govan abt 1886.
1885-1889 addresses according to Poor Law record:
Cornwall St, Govan, Poorhouse (for a few days prior to 6th Dec 1889)
114 & 172 Blackburn St (172 on two occasions over a year apart)
79 (&73?) McLean St
15 & 25 Lambshill St
Abercorn St, Glasgow
Maternity hospital, Glasgow (as nurse), early 1886
Lived in Coventry for 12 years c.1873-1885 (bar returning to Scotland to have three children).

I haven't done a lot of Scottish research, so was wondering if anyone had any advice for where I should be looking next having obtained this information.

I contacted the Mitchell Library last week in Glasgow, as from what I've read, think the workhouse records might be there,but I'm yet to hear back.

I can't see an obvious birth record for John on Scotlands people website, and still can't find either of them on the 1891 census (wondering if he could have unfortunately died though, as I wasn't aware of him previously). Are there any other sources that may provide further information?

Thanks

[MaureeninNY]

His birth record on SP is John Anslow SPROUL. Born Sept. 17 1886 25 Lambhill St. Govan . Mother Ellen SPROUL (hospital nurse) . Her domicile is given as 20 Whitefriars St. Coventry.

Maureen

[mongojoby]

Brilliant, thank you for this Maureen.

I'd discounted that one being likely, based on the middle name and not spotting the link between Plantation and Govan. To be honest its a few years, since I've seriously been researching family history and think I'm a bit out of practice!

Unfortunately, I've found a potential death record from 1910 (age ten years out), but due to the sad circumstances (paralysis of the insane), I'm wondering if the age could be inaccurate and that is him.

Thanks again.

[ColC]

I wonder if Helen married, record on SP.
HELEN SPROUL married JOHN MUIR 1890 Plantation

Colin

[Forfarian]

I've found a potential death record from 1910 (age ten years out), but due to the sad circumstances (paralysis of the insane), I'm wondering if the age could be inaccurate and that is him.

Whom does the death certificate name as his parents? There isn't another Anslow Sproul in the birth, marriage or death indexes, so it looks as if it must be him.

Paralysis of the insane can be acquired congenitally, though it's not hereditary.

[MaureeninNY]

I wonder if Helen married, record on SP.
HELEN SPROUL married JOHN MUIR 1890 Plantation

Colin

That one looks good,Colin!

On Ancestry 1891 Scotland:
John Muir occ: Shoemaker
With wife Ellen-born 1852 Paisley Occ: Nurse
and son John born 1887
4 Villiers Court
Dennistoun

Maureen

[mongojoby]

Maureen / Colin - Thank you so much! I genuinely don't know what to say - you have literally helped smash a 10 year brick wall for me, with the help of the information from the Paisley Poor Law records!

Marriage records states Ellen's details as the following: 

Helen Sproul (widow) / 34 / Ladies nurse / Father: Daniel Gibson Mother: Helen Gibson (maiden name McLean)
In reality Ellen Gibson Sproul's father was actually Daniel/ Donald McCallum Sproul and her mother's maiden name was Helen Doig Hay Gibson (whose death certificate states her mother's maiden name was Mclean)!

Forfarian - no parents are listed, which is one reason I think it is likely the age could be wrong.

Coincidentally, the Mitchell Library have gotten back to me this afternoon, and have poor relief records for Ellen Gibson Sproul from 1889 and John Anslow Sproul from 1905 - going to get a copy of both applications, so hopefully will shed some more light on circumstances.

Just shows you never know what's round the corner with family history research, it's just a shame able to find out so much about them because they lead such terribly unfortunate lives.

Hoping I might be able to piece together where Ellen is in 1901 and 1911 and find a death record for her now!

Thanks again

[MaureeninNY]

Yes,very sad circumstances.

Somewhere along the line you made mention of sighting Ellen (later in life) with daughter Gertrude? Or am I imagining things.

Kind regards,
Maureen

[mongojoby]

Yes, that's right Maureen - not been able to find any evidence to verify but according to family, Ellen lived with her daughter in later life.

Gertrude is in Winchester in 1911, and Southampton in 1939 (Charles is in Ripon between those times).