Author Topic: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!  (Read 2829 times)

Offline ard

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WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« on: Wednesday 14 November 18 01:14 GMT (UK) »
Who is up for some sleuthing?!

I'm really struggling to put some pieces together - I know they fit somehow but ...
My difficulties began with determining the surname Walters that appeared in various records and transcriptions as Walter, Waters, Waiters... I've settled on Walters. Maybe she had a thick accent!

This is what I am working with:

My ancestor Caroline Walters (that is what she signed at her marriage; her husband made his X mark) was apparently born in Woolwich (Kent, later Middlesex, then London) around 1821. She married William Burton in Welton le Wold, Lincolnshire in 1842. There is no entry for her father's name. A witness to the marriage was Ann Walters (X).

In 1841 Caroline "Waters" age 20 was a female servant at the Rectory in Welton le Wold. Her age seems to be accurate as opposed to a rounding off of years.

Although she was born in Woolwich, I am thinking that she had a family Lincolnshire connection before moving there.

The next revelation came when I discovered that, in 1891, her granddaughter (who was my great grandmother Agnes and who appears to have later added Bee and Vere de Vere to her collection of names) worked as a domestic in the household of Henry and Rebecca Bee. I found out that Henry Wetherall Bee was a witness at the 1887 marriage of one of Caroline's daughters, Emma Burton, to George Johnson. More interestingly, it turns out that Rebecca's surname is Walters (Walter or Waters) - she married Henry in 1868. Moreover, according to census information, Rebecca was born in Little Carlton, Lincs. around 1838, and as a child may have lived with an Ann Waters/Waiters (transcription or record errors?) who was from Ireland (1841) or Scotland (1851) and who might have been Rebecca's grandmother (1851). I am also speculating that this could be the same Ann Walters who was a witness at Caroline's wedding... maybe Caroline's mother, even (which could make Rebecca Caroline's niece, I guess).

We also have a Petit Point alphabet sampler that had belonged to my great-grandmother Agnes Annie "Bee" "Vere de Vere" Hoffmann (married name was Neale) that was done by her 'Aunt Bee'.  (Or, perhaps she was a cousin of some degree.)

So, tantalizing loose ends and educated speculations abound!

Since I can't locate a birth record for Rebecca (so I don't know who her parents were) and I don't know who the parents of Caroline were either (was she "illegitimate"?) I can't confirm the relationships.

All this is so that I can find the ancestry of Caroline Burton, nee Walters! She is one of my brick walls...

Does anyone have ideas of how I might put the piece of this puzzle together?!

MUCH THANKS!

ard

CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Browne;Leach;Martin;Hewett. *KNT:Foster;Piper. *ESSX:Smith;Baker;Everitt;Willings;Spurgeon;Wellens.  *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.
*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters; *SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan
 . *NI:Ferguson;Boyd. *DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)

Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 05:51 GMT (UK) »
I see in 1851 Ann and Rebecca were living with Ann's son James in Louth as below

Ann   Waiters Widow   62   Laundress   Scotland
James Waiters   Son   24 Farm Labourer Carlton, Lincolnshire
Rebekah   Waiters  Grand Daughter   13   Carlton, Lincolnshire

James appears to marry widow Mary Ann Wallis in Louth in 1858 (Dec Qtr 1858  Louth 7a   1096   )   I  wonder if his marriage cert would be worth getting to see if it names a father :-\   

Kay

Offline rosie99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 08:00 GMT (UK) »
I see in 1851 Ann and Rebecca were living with Ann's son James in Louth as below

Ann   Waiters Widow   62   Laundress   Scotland
James Waiters   Son   24 Farm Labourer Carlton, Lincolnshire
Rebekah   Waiters  Grand Daughter   13   Carlton, Lincolnshire

James appears to marry widow Mary Ann Wallis in Louth in 1858 (Dec Qtr 1858  Louth 7a   1096   )   I  wonder if his marriage cert would be worth getting to see if it names a father :-\   

Kay

That marriage shows
James Walter of full age - bachelor -father Abraham Walter occ Labourer
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 08:27 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Rosie -  Mary the bride was a widow which ties in with the census. (I mean she had a child born pre the marriage)

Just checked baptisms in Little Carton and James appears to baptised in 1825 in Little Carlton  with only Ann listed as a parent  :-\

Kay

Offline Mckha489

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 08:43 GMT (UK) »
Rebecca Walter (spinster age 30 )  named her father as Thomas SOUTHERN a Lathe Bender/Render

Added..one of the witnesses was a Mary Walter
currently concentrating on a number of Staffordshire families.

Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 08:50 GMT (UK) »
Both Rebecca (1838) and her sister Mary (1833) were baptised in Little Carlton and and only  their mother Elizabeth is listed

Kay

Offline Mckha489

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 09:07 GMT (UK) »
1841,
Spital hill, Louth
Ann  Waters  50 chairwoman.  No.   Could be an I or an S.
Elizabeth 15       No. Ditto
Mary 8. Yes
Rebecca 4 yes
currently concentrating on a number of Staffordshire families.

Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 14:58 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your quick replies! I only have a minute (it's morning here) and will look more fully at your responses but it there are some new leads, for sure. I'm thinking that Ann (who was a witness at Caroline's wedding) might have been her mother. No father is mentioned and I wonder why Caroline alone would have been born in Woolwich... I suppose Ann could have been her aunt.

The Southern connection is interesting. Caroline (Walters) and William Burton's daughter Mary Ann married a John Southern (father Thomas Southern) in 1870 (Welton le Wold). They were both in their 20s. I don't have any children listed for the couple.

Yesterday I also found
 Mary Walter
Christening Date: 04 Aug 1833
SAINT MARGARET, WOODHALL, LINCOLN,ENGLAND
Father's Name:   Thomas Walter
Mother's Name:   Ann (? :-/)

James Waters
Census 1841 Louth Little Carlton, Lincolnshire, England 4 HO107 630/2
Residence Upper Hall
Age (about) 15 Birthplace Lincolnshire
Household:
Samuel Caley M   55-59   Lincolnshire
Ann Caley F 45-49   
Margaret Caley F   11 Lincolnshire
Helen Caley F 7 Lincolnshire
Mary Caley F 4 Lincolnshire
William Alcock M 35-39 Lincolnshire
John Vere M 5-19   Lincolnshire
James Waters M 15-19 Lincolnshire
Ann Jacklin F 20-24 Lincolnshire
Sarah Appleby F 20-24 Lincolnshire
Ann Reynolds F 20-24 Ireland)

Odd that Vere appears. In fact, there are quite a few Veres in Lincs. but I can't for the life of me figure out why my great-grandmother added Vere de Vere to her name. I think she suffered from delusions of grandeur...

I'll be back later. THanks again!




CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Browne;Leach;Martin;Hewett. *KNT:Foster;Piper. *ESSX:Smith;Baker;Everitt;Willings;Spurgeon;Wellens.  *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.
*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters; *SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan
 . *NI:Ferguson;Boyd. *DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)

Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 14 November 18 15:32 GMT (UK) »
The later  John Southern and Mary Ann Burton marriage is interesting

I have been chasing in circles  this Thomas Southern (father of John)who I thought might be the father of Elizabeth Southern's children Mary Ann and Rebecca

In 1851 he was living in Carlton Scroop as below with wife Elizabeth born Scotland !!  I presume the son John married Mary Ann Burton

Thomas Southern    36 b Great Gonnerby  Ag Lab
Elizabeth Southern    39 b Scotland
Ann Southern    11b Coddington Notts
Betsy Southern    9 b Carlton
John Southern    6  b Carlton

I thought this might possibly be Thomas Southern with Elizabeth Walters if the age in the 1841 census was incorrect but the GRO Birth Index lists the 2 younger children with the mothers maiden name Beck :-\   In 1841 the oldest child  Ann Southern b Coddington Notts was living in Coddington Notts as follows  all born in the county

Charlotte Beck    65
Ann Southern    25
Anne Southern    1

And in 1844 there is is a bapt of a John Southern 2 Sep 1844  Carlton Scroop, Lincoln  with parents Thomas Southern and Ann Beck so maybe Elizabeth was Thomas's second wife???

Kay

Added -A marriage Marriages March Qtr 1847   Grantham 14   427   includes two possble partners Thomas Southern and Elizabeth Walters

Marriage online
Thomas Southern of full age (widower)Carlton Scoop married Elizabeth Walters of full age West Willoughby  married at Ancaster 18 March 1857  her father was Thomas a labourer and his father was Thomas a labourer