Author Topic: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!  (Read 3001 times)

Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #27 on: Friday 16 November 18 04:47 GMT (UK) »
This is a link to the details to expect on a death cert at the time. http://www.sog.org.uk/learn/help-getting-started-with-genealogy/guide-three 

Sadly it's unlikely that her husband would be named but like Mckha489 I think its worth trying re the informant

Kay

Added - Looking at the burials records on FindMyPast both James and Agnes Ann were buried at St James Church Louth





Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #28 on: Friday 16 November 18 14:07 GMT (UK) »

You have all been such a tremendous help! I've been able to advance quite a bit since I started this thread!!

I think I may start with Caroline's (I don't yet have a copy of her death certificate yet!) and get James' at the same time and possibly Agnes Ann's too (although both her death and burial entries have Walter, not Walters...not sure if that's an issue of not). Thank you for finding out which cemetery they are buried in, Kay. That will be helpful, especially if I ever make it back to the UK.

It's funny really, my great-grandmother (who apparently had many grand stories, among which she claimed close families ties to a famous pianist and to granddaughters of the  Viscountess Cowdray - many of which I cannot account for), had a small bible in which she had pasted an image of St.Martin's church in "Welton" where  "Grandmother and Granddad are buried. W&C Burton" and had inserted a comment praising her mother (whom she would have hardly known). Years ago, I had no idea where this Welton was or who her grandparents were. These entries in her bible turned out to be the gateway to finding out about my Burton ancestry and is still leading to more paths! I am grateful that I had a family that never got rid of much!

Thanks again!  :-*
CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Leach;Martin;Hewett.*KNT:Foster;Piper.*ESSX:Smith;Baker;Hawkins;Everitt;Spurgeon;Wellens. *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters;*SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan,Gemmel/Giemle,Clerk*NI:Ferguson;Boyd.*DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)

Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 22 November 18 12:52 GMT (UK) »
Update. In the end, I sent away for the PDF of my gggg-grandmother's death certificate and that of "Agnes Ann Walter."

In the first case, I only confirmed my guess but it's always interesting to know something of "cause of death."

Agnes Ann Walter's information on her death record is inconclusive as there is no indication if she is the same as the Ann Walters born in Scotland (sometimes the "informant" is a clue)  :-\ The only possible clue, apart from the fact that the age fits, is that she did die in South Street, Louth... this is where, according to censuses, the Scottish Ann lived in 1851-71. If it is her, I wonder why all of a sudden she is Agnes Ann!

This is some of what the certificate contains:

Date and residence: 24th of July, 1875, South Street, Louth; age 87; **widow of Thomas Walter, private soldier**; cause: Ramolissment, certified by...; Informant : C or G Lamming??? present at death, South Street; Registered the 26th of July.

P.S. additional note: Maybe Charlotte Lamming, nee Dannatt (various spellings), born C. 1837 South Elkington, Lincs. (I'm always looking for potential links!!); probably not family, although the informant often is.

At this point, it should be easier to disprove she isn't the same one than prove that she is! At any rate, I am no further finding out if Ann is Caroline's mother, and if not, how she relates to Caroline (because I'm convinced she does, if only as an aunt) ! Oh well  :'(

I wish you the best of luck for your own searches!
CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Leach;Martin;Hewett.*KNT:Foster;Piper.*ESSX:Smith;Baker;Hawkins;Everitt;Spurgeon;Wellens. *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters;*SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan,Gemmel/Giemle,Clerk*NI:Ferguson;Boyd.*DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)


Offline Kay99

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #30 on: Friday 23 November 18 16:52 GMT (UK) »
I wonder whether  it is a dead end   On her death cert Agnes Ann was listed as widow of Thomas Walter - soldier.    Daughter Elizabeth  lists her father as Thomas on her marriage cert.   

I checked out on Scotlands People the possible baptism for Elizabeth Walters(which I posted before) in  North Leith in 1811 with parents Thomas Walters and Ann Binnie I found on Scotlands People  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQCR-6ZK   I can't post an extract on this part of the site but father Thomas is listed as a  soldier in the Royal Artillery

I also checked possible marriage for the couple in 1810 in Edinburgh on Scotlands People https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1G-GZ5 - Thomas Walter - Gunner Royal Artillery and Ann Binnie Servant Dukes Street - Daughter of John Binnie Weaver  Witnesses John Page and Robert Watson both of the Royal Artillery

Seems a bit of a coincidence if it is unrelated. 

Kay




Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #31 on: Friday 23 November 18 20:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Kay! I did take note of the Thomas and Ann (Binnie) you posted earlier... Given that Thomas and Ann are such common names, I'm always a little wary when I come across such a match as I can only imagine all the records that aren't yet digitalized or available to compare it with! I had also been thinking that 1811 seemed a little early for the Elizabeth of later censuses but it's not really since they indicate that she would have been born around 1812 (whereas I had in mind 1813 for her birth year). I don't have a subscription to Scotland People and so your additional information about Thomas' occupation (in two separate records no less!) seems to make a very good case for that couple. Thanks so much for that.

One scenario that I had been imagining after reading the death registration info was that soldier Thomas was sent to southern England (for training or something) and brought his wife and daughter. If he died a private (the certificate had soldier private), perhaps he was fairly young. It's obviously more difficult to find a death prior to 1837 and it would also have to be for a Thomas Walters-Walter-Waters! If he did go he could have been there anywhere from 1812ish to 1821 or even 1840, I guess) IF Caroline is Ann's daughter, Thomas may or may not be the father because she was born around 1821 (10 years after Elizabeth!). So, even if Ann was a working widow and stayed a while in Kent, she could have also had another child. But maybe she had relatives in Lincolnshire and, as a single mother with at least two daughters, went for support and to find work. There she had another child (James) perhaps as you suggested, with widower Abraham).

"Dead end" or not, I rarely give up because eventually, I get an idea or a chance to view new records!  ;) I appreciate finding all those records! It has really helped. I think one needs an active imagination and can't be too impatient doing genealogy! I will keep what you have found and see if I can go further with it. It would be a bonus if there were a record of an *Agnes* Ann Binnie born around 1788 in Scotland!

Cheers,
Ard  :)
CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Leach;Martin;Hewett.*KNT:Foster;Piper.*ESSX:Smith;Baker;Hawkins;Everitt;Spurgeon;Wellens. *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters;*SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan,Gemmel/Giemle,Clerk*NI:Ferguson;Boyd.*DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)

Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #32 on: Friday 23 November 18 21:09 GMT (UK) »
P.S. This seems promising, as far as my "theory" goes... Caroline was born in Woolwich!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Artillery_Barracks

"The Royal Artillery Barracks at Woolwich in the Royal Borough of Greenwich, London, was the home of the Royal Artillery from 1776 until 2007."

"(...) Woolwich Common itself has long been used for military purposes. In 1802-4 four Acts of Parliament transferred ownership of the Common (which until then had been grazing land) to the military; "

"From 1802, the open ground to the west of the Common became a field training ground known as the Repository Grounds. The ground was laid out with trees, ditches, ponds, ravines, earthworks, and other structures in order to train troops in the movement of guns, ammunition and heavy equipment across difficult terrain; (...) A regimental school was opened nearby in 1808;" etc.
 :)

Added PS (I am putting this link here so that I can find it again!) https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=324920.0
CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Leach;Martin;Hewett.*KNT:Foster;Piper.*ESSX:Smith;Baker;Hawkins;Everitt;Spurgeon;Wellens. *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters;*SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan,Gemmel/Giemle,Clerk*NI:Ferguson;Boyd.*DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)

Offline Mckha489

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #33 on: Friday 23 November 18 21:35 GMT (UK) »
You don’t pay a sub for Scotland’s People. You just sign in then search the indexes then buy credits to get just the images you want.  Is quite economical (as these things go!)
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING

Offline ard

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Re: WALTERS - Trying to tie the pieces together!
« Reply #34 on: Friday 23 November 18 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Mckha489. Yes, I'd forgotten that. I have used Scotland People in the past. I guess I meant a subscription to FindMyPast.  ;)

Cheers!

CNL.DVN:Knight;Jenkins;Bray;Harvey;West;Judd;Menhinnit;Griffin;Harding;Williams;Goman;Cock;Leach;Martin;Hewett.*KNT:Foster;Piper.*ESSX:Smith;Baker;Hawkins;Everitt;Spurgeon;Wellens. *MDX:Gruber;Shortland;Dukes;Cooper;Appelton;Watts;Hooper;Neale;Ricketts.*LCN:Burton;Blackburn;Walters;*SCOT:Blair;Dick;Stevenson;Williamson;Halliday;;Gilchrist;Leggat;Davies;Frew;Pollock;Richmond;Houston;McLachlan,Gemmel/Giemle,Clerk*NI:Ferguson;Boyd.*DEU:Gruber,Henne,Hohln(Württemberg)Hoffmann(Birkenfeld)