Finding the second missing child of John Thomas Taylor and Mary Ellen Turner

[TinaRoyal]

Can anyone help me find the second “missing” child of John Thomas Taylor and Mary Ellen Turner ?

According to the 1911 Census, my Grandparents, John Thomas Taylor and Mary Ellen Turner had four children.  I know the two who survived, Ronald and Percy, and of the two who died, I have identified Elsie, who was born 16th January 1904 and who died in January 1905, but I cannot find the second child who died before 1911.

John Thomas Taylor and Mary Ellen Turner were married at St. Stephen’s, Countess of Huntingdon’s Connextion Church, in Rochdale, on 17th September 1898.  I have searched the GRO records for children, with a Surname of Taylor and a Mother’s Maiden Surname of Turner, born in Rochdale in between 1898 and who died before 1911 and come up with three, Bertha born in 1899, Elsie born in 1904 and Doris, also born in 1904.  We know about Elsie, but Bertha and Doris are not related to us.

I am at a loss to know what to do next.  None of the descendents of John Thomas Taylor and Mary Ellen Turner, other than myself, are alive, so there is no-one to ask.  Any help would be most appreciated.

Tina

[josey]

It does happen sometimes that the mother records a stillbirth as a live birth. Such is the case with the mother of my current avatar [she recorded 3 children 1 alive 2 dead] in 1911, but I have only found Stanley 1892 & a sister Nellie 1896 - 1896 in the GRO birth index & no burial for a 3rd. The 2 surnames are unusual so unlikely not to be able to find them.

ADDED: Also occasionally I understand that records did not find their way onto the GRO return. Have you tried Lancs BMD site or the local registrar's office?

[Pheno]

Try looking for births from say 1895 onwards registered in the name Turner with no mother's maiden name.  Lots of occasions when a child of a couple was born prior to their marriage and often registered in the mother's maiden name.

Pheno

[groom]

I agree with Josey, the baby could have been stillborn and therefore won't be on the birth registers. My friend had a still born child but always says she has had 3 children, even though only 2 are living, I suspect a lot of parents did the same on the census. 

[garstonite]

is this a possible ??

Baptism: 6 Dec 1896 St Luke, Halliwell, Lancashire, England
James Turner - [Child] of Mary Ellen Turner
    Abode: 23 Turk St
    Occupation: Winder
    Baptised by: J H Gibbon
    Register: Baptisms 1895 - 1900, Page 27, Entry 212
    Source: Original register

do you have Mary Ellen Turner in the 1891 census - if so - where is she living ?

[TinaRoyal]

Mary Ellen Turner is on the 1891 Census, living at 25 MacMillan Street in Rochdale, (RG12/3330, Folio 72, Pages 7&8, Enumeration District 05).  She is living there with her mother, her two sisters and three “boarders”, to whom the Turners were related.

Mary Ellen Turner is also on the 1901 Census, living at 107 Duke Street in Rochdale, (RG13/3839, Folio 179, Page 48, Enumeration District 08).  She is living there with John Thomas Taylor and his three sons, Harry, Frank and John, from his previous marriage to Margaret Corcoran, who died in 1897.