Author Topic: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881  (Read 9792 times)

Offline mckha489

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 11 December 18 00:54 GMT (UK) »
Incase you can't see this bit when not a member of Soc of Genealogists
here is what it says about those records.

The original documents

In nearly every case the Petitions follow a stereotypical formula, as the forms contain a printed set of questions which were to be answered by the applicant. The following Petition of Ann Bell in January, 1848, may be taken as a representative example:
To the Honorable the Master, Wardens and Assistants, of the Corporation of Trinity-House of Deptford-Strond. The humble Petition of Ann Bell, aged forty six years, residing at Queen Street, Whitehaven, Widow of John Bell,

Sheweth,

That your Petitioner's Husband went to Sea at the Age of 15 in the Year 1820 and was employed in the Merchant Sea Service for 27 Years, in the following Ships, and others, and in the annexed Stations:

Year   Ship or
Vessel's Name   Register Tonnage   Station on board   From what Place,
to what Place
1820   William   of 158 tons   Apprentice   From Whitehaven
to Dublin
1825   do.   do.   Mate   do.
1832   do.   do.   Master   do.
1848
up to death   Ceres   150 tons   Mate   do.

That your Petitioner's Husband on the 16th day of January, 1848, went on board the last named vessel early in the morning to get her into a proper Berth in the Whitehaven Harbour and the Hatches having been left off he fell into [the] Hold and was killed on the place, and she has 5 Children, viz. 2 Boys under 12 Years of Age, and 3 Girls under 14 Years of Age, viz.

CHILDREN'S NAMES   DATE OF CHILDREN'S BIRTH
Dorothy   born 25th February 1835
William   born 12 Novr 1837
Ann   born 10 May 1840
Lancelot   born 3 August 1842
Mary Ann   born 2 July 1846

That your Petitioner has no Annual Income from Real or Personal Property. That your Petitioner's Means of Support are from her Friends, she being in a delicate state of health which not being sufficient to support herself and Family, she most humbly prays that she or her Children may be admitted to the Pension of this Corporation.
Your Petitioner will ever pray, &c.,
Ann Bell X her mark
Dated 25th January 1848.

On the other side of this Petition are certificates, one signed by the owner of the ship in which John Bell last served, another by a Medical Practitioner saying that Ann Bell is "incapable of gaining her livelihood", and the third by "two respectable Persons" (in this case six Whitehaven shipowners sign) vouching for the truth of the Petition. Then follow five certificates of baptism of the children signed by the Curate of St James, Whitehaven, a certificate of the marriage of John Bell and Ann (formerly Dobson), at the same church, and five birth certificates of the children, on one of which the informant is "John Bell of Whitehaven, Master of the House of Correction, in attendance and grandfather of the infant". The Petition is endorsed "4s.6d." and dated 14th February, 1848. This means that the Petitioner was granted that amount monthly from the date stated.

Naturally every Petition varies in the amount of information given, and also the number of documents enclosed in support of the Petitioner's claims, but as the period covered by them includes the whole of the Napoleonic Wars, there is a tremendous amount of valuable genealogical information about many seamen who either fought or were taken prisoner during those times.

Unfortunately the records of Trinity House suffered severely as a result of fires in 1666 and 1714 and the balance was almost totally destroyed by bombing in 1940. Providentially in 1934 the Corporation of Trinity House had presented to the Society of Genealogists all the Petitions for assistance then surviving and covering the period 1787 to 1854.

At some time in the eighteenth century the first Petitions had been given a serial letter A, and were numbered from 1 to 10,000. They were entered into Pension Pay Books where all details as to the rates of pay, etc, were recorded. All the Petitions in Series A have perished, and although the Pay Books survived from 1775 and contained details of Petitioners from A2547 onwards, these too were destroyed in 1940.

All the Petitions until B4001 dated 1 February, 1787, have also disappeared but from that date the Society has an apparently complete run to 1854. The Petitions were originally filed in bundles in numerical order in their respective years, but they were opened out by the Society, placed in rough alphabetical order, and then bound into 102 volumes. For some unknown reason an additional group of Petitions, covering a similar period was put to one side at the Society and not traced until 1970 when it also was bound into eleven volumes. All these documents, after having been microfilmed, were deposited by the Society at the Guildhall Library, London.

Further information on Trinity House and its records, now stored at the Guildhall Library, London, is available at www.history.ac.uk/gh/thouse.htm and www.history.ac.uk/gh/thouse2.htm , and in an article by E.P. Stapleton, that appeared in "The Genealogists' Magazine", vi, 490-492 (1934).

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #64 on: Tuesday 11 December 18 07:45 GMT (UK) »
Please note that you do not need to be a member of the SOG to see the petitions. The original records are not at Guildhall Library but at LMA.

Offline Fredsboy

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 14:18 GMT (UK) »
Thx Mckha489, I am consolidating this information and planning a few archive visits - never been to Kew or Lambeth libraries so looking forward to it.

Obliged as ever Bookbox.  :)

Does anyone know if the experienced members on here offer 'mentor days' - meet at Key/LMA and in return for coffee and lunch give advice and guidance?
Aguirra, Howell, Weatherby, Mady

Offline Fredsboy

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 14:39 GMT (UK) »
I checked LMA records and everything seems to be transferred there except "The Trinity House petitions : a calendar of the records of the Corporation of Trinity House, London in the library of the Society of Genealogists."

A new library (exciting) so I'll go along to Guildhall and report back my findings (unless someone has membership of something that gives more information).
FYI - I try and split my time between my family research and reading the FAQs etc. to learn more generally - there is such a lot
Aguirra, Howell, Weatherby, Mady


Offline Bookbox

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 19:52 GMT (UK) »
I checked LMA records and everything seems to be transferred there except "The Trinity House petitions : a calendar of the records of the Corporation of Trinity House, London in the library of the Society of Genealogists."

A new library (exciting) so I'll go along to Guildhall and report back my findings (unless someone has membership of something that gives more information).

I think you may have misunderstood. Apologies if I wasn’t clear above.

The original Trinity House Petitions (as opposed to the Calendar) are held at LMA, not at Guildhall.

This is from the LMA research guide Records of the Corporation of Trinity House:
https://search.lma.gov.uk/SCRIPTS/MWIMAIN.DLL/142194367/2/1/73?RECORD&UNION=Y
To receive a Trinity House pension or enter an almshouse, one had to petition the Corporation. Petitions survive from 1787-1854 and are a useful family history source; they are available to consult on microfilm:
•   Main series of petitions 1787-1854 (Ms 30218A)
•   Second series of petitions 1787-1853 (Ms 30218B)
Both series are indexed in a volume "Trinity House Petitions" on the open shelves in the Information Area.


The original petitions were ‘calendared’ (listed and summarized in surname/date order) and microfilmed many years ago by the Society of Genealogists, who then deposited them at Guildhall Library. I think there is still a copy of the Calendar (only) at Guildhall Library, but not the petitions themselves, which were transferred to LMA. 

The Calendar is now also available online. The Calendar entry for Nicholas Weatherby reads as follows:

WEATHERBY Nicholas, 46, wife Isabella, of Glovers Hatch, Lambeth, 1820

If you think this is your man, you should access the original petition and see the full information (of the kind outlined in the example in reply #63 above). To do this you have some choices:

(a) order a printout of the petition from the microfilm held at the SoG, via FindMyPast (£12.00)

(b) order a printout of the petition from the microfilm direct from the SoG, using this link (£12.00)
http://www.sog.org.uk/books-courses/books-publications/trinity-house-petitions

(c) visit LMA and view the microfilmed petition for yourself (free access).

I hope this is now clear.

ADDED - I see that LDS have digitised the petitions, so viewing them at a LDS Family History Center would be another option.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/29802?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 20:11 GMT (UK) »
Does anyone know if the experienced members on here offer 'mentor days' - meet at Key/LMA and in return for coffee and lunch give advice and guidance?

I can't say whether anyone on here does this, but perhaps you will get an offer?

Otherwise, LMA staff are extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Don't be afraid to ask. They can offer lots of guidance if they are not too busy when you visit (pick a quiet day, e.g. Monday).

LMA also have a team of experienced volunteers who do mentoring work of this kind on their Saturday opening days (usually the second Saturday of the month).

Many professional genealogists also offer this kind of service, on a fee-paying basis.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 22:59 GMT (UK) »
Thx Mckha489, I am consolidating this information and planning a few archive visits - never been to Kew or Lambeth libraries so looking forward to it.

Obliged as ever Bookbox.  :)

Does anyone know if the experienced members on here offer 'mentor days' - meet at Key/LMA and in return for coffee and lunch give advice and guidance?


Hello

You may already know that you will need to prove who you are and where you live at most Archives and some Archives don't accept the CARN (County Archive Research Network) Card.

T.N.A., Kew
However The National Archives, Kew; British Library and some other Archives and Institutions have their own electronic entry system and/or Readers Ticket, to see original documents.

For TNA, Kew
The National Archives, Kew
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/

'Readers Ticket' required to view original Documents and everything in the secure Reading Room areas
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/visit-us/researching-here/do-i-need-a-readers-ticket/

Even if you Register in Advance, you'll need to take your current original proofs of Identification and address/es with you, until you are issued with the official Readers Ticket. When Renewing / Replacing you'll need to repeat the process.

Mark

Offline Fredsboy

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 23:14 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Bookbox,

this is definitely my man (correct wife and address). LMA here I come.

Mark, thx for the advice. I have a History Card at LMA (they were helpful but end of day a little rushed) and will re-read Kew and make any pre-bookings.

Just started on the male side (John Howell) so Ill plan a full day

Paul
Aguirra, Howell, Weatherby, Mady

Offline Fredsboy

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Re: Stuck and need some inspiration please. Cold trail Bermondsey 1881
« Reply #71 on: Sunday 16 December 18 13:01 GMT (UK) »
Popped into Lambeth Archives (Minet Library) - lovely helpful people working there, really cosy and crossed off a few maybe's (found consecutive year maps proving changes of street names, drainage maps are incredibly detailed. They have thousands of non-online card indices. I am planning a  more full day if I can return any favours with look ups, London street names etc.
Aguirra, Howell, Weatherby, Mady