Author Topic: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk  (Read 1230 times)

Offline Bonniest

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William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« on: Thursday 15 November 18 20:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello all, a newbie here hoping for help! Thank you in advance if anyone can.

I have the birth certificate for Alice Kate Mary Ann Spencer born Great Yarmouth 22 October 1876.
Her father was William Watts Spencer, b 1854 Chelsea, house carpenter. His father has same name.
Her mother was Sarah Spencer ( nee Steward, father John farmer). Sarah born 1851 Stokesby Norfolk. They married 5th June 1876, Fulham London.

I have marriage certificate for Alice Kate Spencer, aged 23, to Henry George 1st April 1900 Great Yarmouth.
Her father named as William Watts Spencer, carpenter.
The banns on 26th Feb1900 says Alice was residing in Great Yarmouth with her mother, no mention of father.

I have traced a William Watts Spencer ( carpenter aged 21) emigrating to Australia, Port Adelaide on 29 th July 1876, arriving November 1876. In 1878 he married Grace Ann Gillard in Yongala, Australia.
marriage certificate says he is a bachelor.

There is a Sarah Spencer who died in London 1876, but this can't be her as the banns of her daughter Alice says they are living together in 1900.

Obviously, anything is possible but does anyone else think this is what happened:
William Watts Spencer and Sarah Spencer married June 1876
WWS emigrated July 1876
Sarah returned to Great Yarmouth alone and their daughter Alice was born Oct 1876
WWS married again illegally in Australia 2 years later.

Does this sound feasible..... or am I missing something obvious!

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:11 GMT (UK) »
Well William married a pregnant Sarah in June 1876 and promptly did a bunk the following month in July.  May well have been forced to marry her, wasn't happy with that and off he went.

Not unusual for someone emigrating to another country to claim to be single.  Giving himself a clean sheet as it were.

Alice may or may not have been told about her father leaving the country.  Does her marriage cert state William is dead?

Have you found Sarah and Alice in any census records?
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline avm228

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:13 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Perhaps the narrative is that William and Sarah married (only) because Sarah was pregnant with Alice.

William quickly got cold feet and did a runner, abandoning Sarah to single parenthood.

Cross posted with Girl Guide’s very similar analysis!
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:17 GMT (UK) »
Should have said Welcome to Rootschat earlier  ;D

Found what appears to be Alice with the Gerrish family in the 1881 census.  No mother with her.

Registration district   Fulham
Archive reference   RG11
Piece number   67
Folio   70
Page   19

I'll see if I can locate her mother.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Offline Girl Guide

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:36 GMT (UK) »
In the 1891 census there is a Sarah Heape with a daughter called Alice Spencer and others in the household.  Sarah is described as a widow.

Living at Bells Road, Gorleston, Mutford, Suffolk & Norfolk

Registration district   Mutford
Archive reference   RG12
Piece number   1496
Folio   45
Page   23

There is this marriage for Sarah Spencer

Marriages Sep 1886   
HATCHMAN    Jessie Josephine        Fulham    1a   547   
HEAPE    Emmanuel        Fulham    1a   547    
HOWARD    Frank        Fulham    1a   547    
SPENCER    Sarah        Fulham    1a   547

If this is indeed your Sarah then she committed bigamy herself.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:36 GMT (UK) »
You have two marriage certificates for William Watts SPENCER with signature on each.

Do the signatures match?

Birth certificate for Alice Kate Mary Ann Spencer born Great Yarmouth 22 October 1876.....

Where was she born ie. residential address?.

Where and when was the birth registered?.      Who was the informant?.

Who are the witnesses on the marriage certificate, Alice Kate SPENCER, 1900?

Offline Girl Guide

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:41 GMT (UK) »
If this is the correct Emmanuel then Sarah married a man considerably older than herself.

Deaths Dec 1887   
Heape    Emanuel    67    Mutford    4a   555

As he died before the 1891 census no check can be made on how old he was.  Only the marriage certificate would state that.  Unless he declared himself to be Of Full Age!
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 November 18 21:59 GMT (UK) »
In the 1891 census there is a Sarah Heape with a daughter called Alice Spencer and others in the household.  Sarah is described as a widow.

Living at Bells Road, Gorleston, Mutford, Suffolk & Norfolk

Registration district   Mutford
Archive reference   RG12
Piece number   1496
Folio   45
Page   23

There is this marriage for Sarah Spencer

Marriages Sep 1886   
HATCHMAN    Jessie Josephine        Fulham    1a   547   
HEAPE    Emmanuel        Fulham    1a   547    
HOWARD    Frank        Fulham    1a   547    
SPENCER    Sarah        Fulham    1a   547

If this is indeed your Sarah then she committed bigamy herself.

Looks to be our Sarah

Also in the household is Kezia Bland - described as aunt to the head of the house (Sarah). Kezia born Stokesby, c1834. Maiden name Steward. she is sister to Sarah's father John

Offline Jamjar

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Re: William Watts Spencer London / Sarah Steward Stokesby Norfolk
« Reply #8 on: Friday 16 November 18 03:34 GMT (UK) »
I can only see one Emmanuel HEAPE on the 1841 and 1861 censuses. He is in the military and the age fits with the death previously listed. In 1861 he is listed as married.

There is a birth of a child to an Emmanuel HEAPE and mother Tabitha in 1944.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV8X-CL8

A marriage:

Dec 1842 St Marylebone 1 220
HEAP Emanuel
FEETHAM Tabitha

Jamjar

Added: There is a Tabitha Heap death in 1893, aged 66.  :(

Mm, here they are on the 1851 and Emanuel is a soldier:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGXT-HM2

They aren’t together on the 1861, but she is listed as married and I can’t see her thereafter.
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