Author Topic: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.  (Read 362 times)

Offline Liviani

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Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« on: Saturday 17 November 18 03:15 GMT (UK) »
Edit: See my post below first.

I'm looking for some help in identifying a place in 2 baptism records.

The baptism records represent 2 siblings; John Kennedy born. 1771, Moneydie and his sister Fanny Kennedy born. 1780, Moneydie. Their parents (as confirmed on both of their DCs) are Robert Kennedy and Janet McGregor.

Here are the corresponding links to these baptisms on IGI.


Unfortunately both of these OPR records are pretty untidy and cramped, specifically Fanny's as it's squint.

All I can make out is that it's probably 'Drum__ feeder/seeder'? I have searched Scotland's Places and various other resources on the parish and cannot find anything that corresponds to what it looks like in these two OPR records.

Note in Fanny's record, her mother is noted as being 'alias Drummond' with the place name below this I believe. In John's record, the mother isn't named at all so I think the Drum does still relate to a place of residence.

Any help gratefully received.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Place name in Moneydie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 17 November 18 04:01 GMT (UK) »
Could this perhaps be 'Drummachar'?

The reason I'm asking is that I got a 'hint' on a third party site to Fanny Kennedy referred to above. I hadn't found her in the 1841 census. I believe she is the 'Frances Kennedy' living at Kendrum Park in the parish of Monzie, Perthshire. She is aged 60 here and living with a James Kennedy, 55 (brother?) and a Thomas Kennedy, 15. James is a Grazier here. I went to FreeCen and brought up their transcription. I do this to flick through the neighbouring properties and see if anything stands out. A couple of clicks along is 'Drummachar'.

One thing I did notice is that on FreeCen this property is shown with the following info;

'Civil Parish - Monzie-Logiealmond' and 'Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island - Moneydie'.

She is in the 1851 and 1861 census at Brawliemuir (or Bralinmuir), Glenbervie, Kincardineshire. Her brother John leased this farm. In the 1851 census at Brawliemuir, Fanny is living with John and both their places of birth is noted as 'Monzie' but their OPR baptisms are listed under Moneydie. This Drummachar in 1841 appears to be in both. This could explain why they put their place of birth as Monzie if this "Drum..." place in the records is Drummachar?

Just a few thoughts? 

Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline Throth

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 17 November 18 20:57 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked at Alexander's baptism 11/11/1784, Moneydie?

The marriage was very much earlier (1762).  Anything about where groom or bride were living?

Offline Liviani

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 17 November 18 23:40 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked at Alexander's baptism 11/11/1784, Moneydie?

The marriage was very much earlier (1762).  Anything about where groom or bride were living?

Hi Throth,

I've just downloaded Alexander's baptism now, and it's written in a different and very much clearer hand. It's definitely Drummachar.

The marriage record states the following;

'Robert Kennedy in this parish and Janet Grigor in the parish of L: Dunkeld (Little Dunkeld I'll assume) gave up their names to be proclaimed in order to/of marriage'

There is another child;

Grisal Kenedy b.1766 Moneydie.
record mentions Drummachar but no mother named.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Place name in Moneydie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 22 November 18 22:30 GMT (UK) »
One thing I did notice is that on FreeCen this property is shown with the following info;
'Civil Parish - Monzie-Logiealmond' and 'Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island - Moneydie'.
This seems to me to be potentially rather confusing.

According to the New Statistical Account (written in 1845) Logiealmond, which was not a parish in its own right but a detached part of Monzie, was disjoined from Monzie 'about 80 years ago' and attached to Moneydie. Moneydie-Logiealmond has no mutual boundary with Monzie, Fowlis lying between them, and by the time of the censuses they were mutually exclusive.

If the disjunction of Logiealmond from Monzie and its attachment to Moneydie occurred about 1765 as the NSA suggests, your 1770s and 1780s  baptisms in Moneydie could have been in Logiealmond but not in the rest of Monzie, but a baptism in the same place in 1762 could have been in Monzie!
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Liviani

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 26 November 18 00:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi Forfarian.

Yep, it is indeed quite confusing. It caused a little bit of an issue on trying to find baptisms under Monzie when they were infact listed under Moneydie instead.

I've had a look at Thomson maps here; https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400163 and it states 'Pt of Monzie annexed to Monedy'. So I'm now searching both Monzie and Moneydie for these families.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline ecksdochter

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 20:02 GMT (UK) »
     Could it be Drumawhar? (See how letter 'w' is formed at the end of name Andrew in the next line.) National Library of Scotland (nls) - Roy Highlands, 1747-52 Map shows a place with that spelling. Drumawhar forms a triangle with Westerton to the south and Cockerstone to the south east.

     https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.4890&lon=-3.5752&layers=3&b=1
     
     Spelling is Drumquhar on later maps. The Wharry Burn, shown to the east of Drumquhar on this OS Six Inch, 1888-1913 Map, may be the boudary line between Moneydie and Auchtergaven Parishes.
     https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.4827&lon=-3.5931&layers=6&b=1

     Regards,     Dod.
"Scotsman! I am not a Scotsman -- I am a Fifer."

Offline Liviani

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 November 18 02:33 GMT (UK) »
     Could it be Drumawhar? (See how letter 'w' is formed at the end of name Andrew in the next line.) National Library of Scotland (nls) - Roy Highlands, 1747-52 Map shows a place with that spelling. Drumawhar forms a triangle with Westerton to the south and Cockerstone to the south east.

     https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.4890&lon=-3.5752&layers=3&b=1
     
     Spelling is Drumquhar on later maps. The Wharry Burn, shown to the east of Drumquhar on this OS Six Inch, 1888-1913 Map, may be the boudary line between Moneydie and Auchtergaven Parishes.
     https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.4827&lon=-3.5931&layers=6&b=1

     Regards,     Dod.

Hi Dod.

Many thanks for this info. I've had a look, but feel it's more likely to be Drummachar. I have an image of Alexander Kennedy's baptism OPR record, which is written in a clearer hand. I'll include it to this post.
Did a quick check on newspaper archives and Thomson maps and it appears Drummquhar is in Auchtergaven Parish which doesn't match well with Monzie/Moneydie I've been seeing for this family.

Some interesting information I found in the newspaper archives about Drummquhar though, apparently it was in the same lineage of Marshalls from the 1600s up until the early 1900s when the last of them died.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray, Kennedy, McGregor
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Place name in Moneydie or Monzie Parish? Kennedy/McGregor surnames.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 November 18 10:17 GMT (UK) »
All I can make out is that it's probably 'Drum__ feeder/seeder'?
Could the last word there be 'seceder', that is, someone who was an adherent of one of the Secession church denominations rather than of the Church of Scotland? The appendix to the Statistical Account of Monedie [sic] says that there was a Seceder church and manse in Logie-Amon, where the minister had a pretty good living and rented a farm. http://stataccscot.edina.ac.uk/static/statacc/dist/viewer/osa-vol3-Appendix_for_Monedie_in_the_county_of_Perth_in_volume_3_of_account_1/
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith