Question about Ancestry Freedom of the City dataset - John DARLING

[familydar]

London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1930 database id 2052

I know a number of questions have been asked before about this dataset and there's lots of info online about what freedom of the city means, but I'm having trouble reconciling what a particular record is supposed to represent with what the record appears to say.

The record in question is for John DARLING, son of Ambrose DARLING of Wantage, apprenticed as a carman to the widow Mary YOUNG.  The document is clearly dated 1692.  There is also something written on the back but I can't make head or tail of anything other than the reference ELJW/145/127.

Does the 1692 date relate to John having completed his apprenticeship at some point prior to the date of the document and being made free (which is what the title of the dataset suggests) or is it the date he was apprenticed in the first place (which is what the document suggests).  Given what to modern eyes looks like a fairly unique father's name you'd think it shouldn't be difficult to work out who the document relates to - think again!

Perhaps someone who's managed to positively identify a uniquely named ancestor within this dataset could enlighten me.

If it helps and it's allowed I'll post a link to the record.

Jane :-)

[ShaunJ]

It's pretty clear: "to serve from the day of the date hereof unto the full end and term of seven years". So the apprenticeship started in 1692.

I don't see the "carman" bit - where is that?

[familydar]

Carmen - top left

[horselydown86]

To confirm what Shaun has posted, John Darling's Indentures of Apprenticeship were signed on 12 August 1692, thus marking the beginning of his apprenticeship.

He was probably aged in the range of 13 - 16 at that time.

The main note on the back is a date in Latin of 13 August in the fourth year of the reigns of William and Mary (ie the day following the signing of Indentures).  It usually represents the date that the apprentice's binding was Inrolled at the Chamber of London.

The name of the collection reflects the fact that these are records of people who became Freemen of the City of London at some later date.  Many apprentices were bound to Freemen of the City who do not appear in this collection, because they didn't go on to themselves achieve the Freedom of the City.

[horselydown86]

How you seen the Admission by Patrimony of John Darling, the son of John Darling, Citizen and Carman of London (in the same collection)?

This gives the admission date of John senior to the Freedom of the City - 11 September in the eleventh year of the reign of King William the Third (ie 1699).

So he didn't muck around, becoming Free of the City within a month or so of completing his apprenticeship.

[familydar]

Everyone seems agreed that John son of Ambrose STARTED his apprenticeship in 1692.  This makes it unlikely that he's the John bap Wantage 1668/69 which is what Ancestry keep suggesting to me, and more likely that he's one born a little later to a different Ambrose, who was the brother of the 1668 John and another son of Ambrose snr (John jnr's bap not found yet).

Chasing him through, John snr took on a number of apprentices himself up till 1745, when he died of consumption a few days after getting married.  His Will, written the day after said marriage, names loving wife Mary and stepdaughter Mary SOUTH.  Loving Mary remarried with almost indecent haste.  I don't think she was John jnr's mother although a candidate bap (St Martin in the Fields 1701) suggests his Mum might have been another Mary.  As white van man John snr was free to ply his trade in the city of London he could have been travelling all over the country I suppose, and with a name like John, son of John, what chance do I really have of finding him.  Doing the maths, John snr must have been married between 1699 (gained freedom) and 1701 (for John jnr to be of age to gain his own freedom in 1722).

To further complicate matters there's what is presumably another John son of John being indentured in March 1722.  It's difficult to read but the county seems to be Bedford.

Woman in every port?

Jane :-)

[horselydown86]

Doing the maths, John snr must have been married between 1699 (gained freedom) and 1701 (for John jnr to be of age to gain his own freedom in 1722).

It's not clear to me whether John Jnr's admission was in 1722 or 1733 (or even some other year).  The document is said to belong to a set from Jun - Nov 1733.  I acknowledge it has 1722 written on it but it's not clear why.

To further complicate matters there's what is presumably another John son of John being indentured in March 1722.  It's difficult to read but the county seems to be Bedford.

This John was apprenticed to what appears to be a man named Thomas Hedges, Citizen and Clothworker of London.

Also the word after the father's name ends in te suggesting it is late of...

[familydar]

I acknowledge it has 1722 written on it but it's not clear why.

That's this dataset all over - clear as mud!

[horselydown86]

Normally an admission by Patrimony has two years written on it.

One is the year of the father's admission and the other is the year of the son's birth.

Applying that pattern to this record has John Jnr admitted to the Freedom of the City by Patrimony aged 11.  You could research whether that was possible at the time.

You could also research when David Quinton was a Warden of the Company.

Finally, you could find out who holds the full records of the Company (most are at LMA) and check these matters in the Company's Minute Books and other registers.