Help with Haldanes of Hawick

[Dereksteven]

Hi Folks,

I am having difficulty in trying to find my great great great grandfather - Robert Henry Haldane born about 1847 in Hawick, Roxburghshire.

According to his marriage certificate his father was Andrew Haldane and his mother Elizabeth Middleton and both were deceased when Robert married Jane McIlwee in Neilston, Renfrewshire on 4th April 1870.

Searches on IGI etc. reveal nothing for his birth entry and nothing again for the census years 1851 and 1861. I have everything else from there on.

Confusingly, his death certificate 12 Jan 1906 states his father as Robert Haldane and his mother as Elizabeth Nicol but I am assuming his son John who reported the death was unsure of Robert's father and mother since they were deceased before he was born.

Any assistance would be very valuable.

Thanks and regards

Derek S Haldane

[MonicaL]

Hi Derek

Welcome to RootsChat 

Certainly tough to find anything on Robert's early years isn't it.

Is this your site http://wrightgenealogy.com/andrewhaldane.html?

I would normally be inclined to work first with parents' names given by the bride or groom than those names given by informants at the death registration of someone.

Just from Family Search, I see that first born daughters were Prudence (Jane's mother) and also Elizabeth (as registered by Robert at the time of his marriage).

With the occupation of blacksmith for Andrew, Robert's father, have you been able to make any headway on this entry from 1851 - without a Robert in the household:

Andrew Haldane 28 Blacksmith Master 2 Chen (?spl) b. Ancrum, roxburgh
Elizabeth Haldane 25 b. Morebattle, roxburgh
Catherine Haldane 5 b. Lilliesleaf, roxburgh
Helen Haldane 3 b. Innerleithen, peebles
James Shiel 20 servant
Alex Mc Lean 17 Locksmith Apprentice

Address: Part Of No 91, Innerleithen, Peebleshire

Monica

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Not sure about the Innerleithen family. Andrew and Elizabeth/Betty baptise a number of children in Innerleithen from 1847 onwards (including Helen) and the mother is noted as Elizabeth Curle or Carle

[MonicaL]

Thanks Mabel. That likely takes them out of the equation though they looked very possible for sure.

Struggling so far to see anything for Robert in 1851 and 1861.

Did their two first born girls die young, Derek?

1881 for the family (you have these entries but helps with background on your post):

Robert H Haldane 37 Labourer In Printfield b. Hawick, Roxburghshire
Jane Haldane 32
Robert H Haldane 6
Andrew Haldane 4
John Haldane 2

Address: Kelburn St. Anderson's Land, Barrhead, Nielston

Monica

[Mabel Bagshawe]

How about this on 1861 in Hawick

Andrew Holdon    40 - frame smith b Dumfries
Robert Holdon    18 - Wool Factory Worker b Dumfries
Eliza Holdon    16 - Wool Factory Worker
Thomas Holdon    14
Andrew Holdon    10
Joseph Holdon    5

Hawick; ED 11; Page 10; Line 9

1851 shows mother is Elizabeth

Only problem being likely baptisms have mother as Elizabeth Welsh

[MonicaL]

Saw that one and also a question mark with mother's maiden name.

Always the possibility that Robert may have been illegitimate also. It is mentioned here http://wrightgenealogy.com/roberthaldane3.html that Robery Henry went by the name of Middleton on his 1901 census entry.

The Andrew Haldane we discussed previously in 1841. He is the only Andrew Haldane, a blacksmith by trade, that I have found so far in Roxburghshire https://www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=78001034

Monica

[Mabel Bagshawe]

That link's not working for me for some reason

the Dumfries Andrew is a brass founder in 1841

His wife I suspect has died before 1861 and Andrew possibly by 1871, as younger Holden children are with stepmother Isabella

[MonicaL]

Mabel, re inserted the link and seems to now work. I made an error stating that this Andrew was with family. He is in fact in the Brown household under apprenticeship likely to William Brown.

Monica

[Dereksteven]

Hi Monica and Mabel,

Thanks for the quick response.

No,  http://wrightgenealogy.com/andrewhaldane.html? is not my site but I have an Ancestry account and further information can be viewed here -

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/154084716/family

Yes, Prudence and Elizabeth were the first born but both died from scarlet fever in 1875.

The 1851 Census entry for Robert's alledged father - Andrew Haldane 28 Blacksmith Master 2 Chen (?spl) b. Ancrum, roxburgh - 2 Chen is actually 2 Men - is all what I've got and with no mention of Robert.


There's also the issues of the multiple pronounciations of the surname Haldane which doesn't really help in cross referencing the census entries so too regarding the Scotting statutory register for BDM's. There are Holdon, Holdane, Haldan, Halden


For example I am nearly certain this is Robert (HOldane) in the 1871 England Census for the Settle to Carlisle railway at Mallerstang, Westmorland - ED: 14, Schedule: 60, Piece: 5271, Folio: 67, Page: 16, since at the time of his wedding in 1870 his occupation is given as a Railway Labourer. But I have nothing else for the Census years 1851 and 1861.

I'm still trying to decipher an Andrew Holdon's death certificate as he was married twice it seems. First to an Elizabeth Welsh b1825 d12/5/1860 then to a Isabella Carson nee Scott b1814 they married 4/7/1862. In the death certificate there are 2 named entries for his former partners Elizabeth and Isabella but am having difficulty in determining the Elizabeth surname.


Yes the 1901 Census for Robert Henry Haldane was a strange one, why did he and the rest of the family change to Middleton and why drop the Robert and use Henry instead.

I only stumbled across it while browsing through the Census for that particular area of Barrhead for another branch of the Haldane family.


I just need to know more about the Middleton name connection which seems important to him - and me!


Thanks and regards


Derek