Author Topic: Was William the wife’s son?  (Read 497 times)

Online Davedrave

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Was William the wife’s son?
« on: Tuesday 20 November 18 20:41 GMT (UK) »
I have an ancestor William Sayers of Chelmsford, whose father, a fellmonger, died in 1851, shortly after the Census. In 1853 his widow mother Sophia remarried an rather older man, William Burgess, probably himself a  widower. In the 1861 Census a William Burgess is listed as “son”, aged 17, born Chelmsford, a fellmonger’s apprentice. The elder William Burgess was a miller. The Burgess’s were living very close to where Sophia had been living in 1851.

In 1864 William Sayers, “full age”, son of William Sayers, married Frances Sams. He was living in the same area as his parents lived in 1851, and was a fellmonger like his father had been.

In 1871 William, aged 27 and wife Frances, both born in Chelmsford, were in Godalming, where he was still working with animal hides.

In the 1861 Census the older children of William and Sophia were presumably from his or her previous marriage or from both. Is it reasonable to think that son William Burgess in 1861 was actually one and the same individual as William Sayers? (I haven’t found a suitable William Sayers in that Census).


ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor Whybrow; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bennet Bentley Crisp Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Seel Taylor Woodward Wright; LINCS: Buswell Lambert Mitchell Muse Sayers; OXON: Barnett Beacham; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Online heywood

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 November 18 21:44 GMT (UK) »
It looks to me that he is William Sayers

1851 1775/503/21

William and Sophia Sayers with 5 children.

1861 1079/183/21
Benjamin and Sophia Burgess with those 5 Sayers children and 2 younger children - all as Burgess.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline avm228

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 00:04 GMT (UK) »

1861 1079/183/21
Benjamin and Sophia Burgess with those 5 Sayers children and 2 younger children - all as Burgess.

Yes, Sophia’s second husband seems to have been Benjamin (rather than William) Burgess - married Dec qtr 1853 Chelmsford.

I agree that William Sayers and William Burgess look likely to be the same person.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Online heywood

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 07:30 GMT (UK) »
I would say that this is Benjamin in 1851 2045/60/27

He is an unmarried Miller living in Eckington, Worcestershire.

(Transcribed as Bargess on one site).
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Online Davedrave

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 08:45 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the help. Calling Benjamin Burgess “William” was my confusion. I only have one page of the 1851 Census, which has William Sayers, 6, at the bottom, so I must be missing the rest of the family/household on a following page.
That is interesting about Benjamin being in Worcs. in 1851. I can’t read his birthplace as given in the 1861 Census.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor Whybrow; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bennet Bentley Crisp Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Seel Taylor Woodward Wright; LINCS: Buswell Lambert Mitchell Muse Sayers; OXON: Barnett Beacham; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight

Offline amondg

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 09:21 GMT (UK) »
1861 he says born Norwich, Norfolk 1871, Chelmsford Essex, 1881 Denton Norfolk.

Sophia is from Woodham Ferrerrs

ADDED 1851 born Denton Norfolk.

Offline amondg

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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 09:46 GMT (UK) »
1851 census
William Sayers 35
Sophia 30
Frances 11 (female)
Albert 8
William 5
George 4
Charles 1

Sophia's maiden name was Taylor.

New GRO index only to 1861, with Benjamin Burgess she had
Walter 1854
Sabina 1857
Harriett 1858
Julia 1859.


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Re: Was William the wife’s son?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 12:13 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for the information, it is very helpful.

Dave :)
ESSEX: Cramphorn Raven Sams Sayers Taylor Whybrow; GLOS: Beacham/Beauchamp; HERTS: Chamberlain Chuck; LEICS: Allot Bennet Bentley Crisp Godfrey Greasley Hunt Hurst Jarvis Lane Lea Light Seel Taylor Woodward Wright; LINCS: Buswell Lambert Mitchell Muse Sayers; OXON: Barnett Beacham; STAFFS: Hodgkins Jarvis; SURREY: Light; WARKS: Astley/Chesshire Bradbury Hicken/Hickin Hudson; WORCS: Ballinger Beauchamp Laight