Author Topic: John Potter (1779) black ancestor  (Read 1046 times)

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,144
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 14:26 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for posting Terry Kavanagh's article. I am becoming more convinced about the "coloured man" description but it looks as though "black sailor" is a term that came from Mr Kavanagh himself.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline rubymelia

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 14:30 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for posting Terry Kavanagh's article. I am becoming more convinced about the "coloured man" description but it looks as though "black sailor" is a term that came from Mr Kavanagh himself.
Yes I agree!

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,607
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 21 November 18 23:33 GMT (UK) »
Have you asked Mr Kavanagh if he would be willing to take a DNA test to see if your family and his match? I expect that John Potter might have been a very common name, and a DNA test would/should confirm. (Once again a reminder than FTDNA have an excellent sale, ending Thursday 22nd)

It seems that Mr Kavanagh is very interested in his family history yet you say he does not intend to pursue John's ancestors .... I wonder why? Family historians are generally like a dog with a bone and I would think that that John being "coloured" would be a lead he would feel compelled to follow .... unless he has tried and not had any success.  :-\

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,998
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 22 November 18 00:47 GMT (UK) »
Another digitised image available via a commercial family history website

Liverpool,  St Peter
No. 35

John Potter of the Parish of Liverpool, Boatman, and Fanny Fisher of the same Parish, Spinster were married in this Church by Banns this third Day of February in the Year One Thousand eight Hundred and Seven by me, L. Pughe, Curate
This Marriage was solemnized between us,  John Potter (he signed) the mark of X Fanny Fisher in the presence of James Taylor and Robert Johnson (likely the local clergy witnesses, they have witnessed several other marriages during that month in that register),


A voting register has an entry for a John Potter, mariner of Brick St, in district 69, in Liverpool in 1806.  The image on a page that commences this list reads:

An Alphabetical list of the Freemen
With the names of the candidates
For whom they respectively polled
At the election for the members of parliament,
In LIVERPOOL,
From the 1st to the 8th November 1806
The Figures in the last Column signify the Watchman’s District in which the person lives.
 

So to me, it seems that the mariner, John Potter, Brick St was in the then watchman’s district of 69.    Also I  have looked for any males with surname FISHER (as candidates for Fanny's dad, same parish etc) on that roll, there’s plenty, but I cannot see any in that same watchman’s district 69.  :-[  :-[  I am not familiar with UK voter rolls searching at such intimate indepth detail, so I apologise if this sighting has nothing to benefit this thread.   :)  :) I do note that the  baptism I posted earlier for 1779, and  this marriage I have transcribed here, and this electoral roll entry are all part of that same family history submitted tree I mentioned earlier.  And it seems are being copied to other trees...
 
So I will also mention that it seems possible that the lad born 1779 had a sister, and here is her baptism as per my reading of the parish register for that event:

Garston, St Michael
Toxteth Park,
Ann, Daughter of John Potter, Labourer, and Ann his wife was born 7th November and baptised 9th December 1781.


I am attaching a pdf, newsletter unaltered.  NO I cannot, file too large.   I will make a separate post after re-doing pdf etc.  May be after lunch (11:46 am in NSW Australia  ;D

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,998
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 22 November 18 00:53 GMT (UK) »
as a png file

one page

copyright image removed
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline mowsehowse

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,205
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 22 November 18 08:16 GMT (UK) »

I thought that perhaps however my mum said that she thinks that both of John's parents probably were black as it would have been extremely rare to have a mixed race couple at that time.
[/quote]
[/quote]

No doubt in terms of % of population it would have been extremely rare, however, I am a mentor for ReadEasy which uses, in their reading scheme, the life story of Olaudah Equiano (also known as Gustavus Vassa). He was an African taken as a child slave. After many years at sea, during which time he saved the pennies he earned barbering for his fellow sailors, he eventually settled ashore and married a white woman. 

Rowse in Brixham, Tenby, Hull & Ramsgate. Strongman, in Falmouth. Champion. Coke. Eame/s. Gibbons. Passmore. Pulsever. Sparkes in Brixham & Ramsgate. Toms in Cornwall. Waymoth. Wyatt.

Offline cristeen

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 654
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 22 November 18 12:07 GMT (UK) »
I have recently been researching British Colonial Florida & Alabama where one of my husband's line was a merchant/ plantation owner & government official. There are numerous mentions of mixed race partnerships, usually white men with native women. Many of the offspring of these partnerships became wealthy & influential. Maybe your John Potter was the result of a similar liaison
Newson, Steavenson, Walker, Taylor, Dobson, Gardner, Clark, Wilson, Smith, Crossland, Goldfinch, Burnett, Hebdon, Peers, Strother, Askew, Bower, Beckwith, Patton, White, Turner, Nelson, Gilpin, Tomlinson, Thompson, Spedding, Wilkes, Carr, Butterfield, Ormandy, Wilkinson, Cocking, Glover, Pennington, Bowker, Kitching, Langhorn, Haworth, Kirkham.

Offline youngtug

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,796
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 22 November 18 13:18 GMT (UK) »
,.
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/05q2/   
  WILSON;-Wiltshire.
 SOUL;-Gloucestershire.
 SANSUM;-Berkshire-Wiltshire
 BASSON-BASTON;- Berkshire,- Oxfordshire.
 BRIDGES;- Wiltshire.
 DOWDESWELL;-Wiltshire,Gloucestershire
 JORDAN;- Berkshire.
 COX;- Berkshire.
 GOUDY;- Suffolk.
 CHATFIELD;-Sussex-- London
 MORGAN;-Blaenavon-Abersychan
 FISHER;- Berkshire.
 BLOMFIELD-BLOOMFIELD-BLUMFIELD;-Suffolk.
DOVE. Essex-London
YOUNG-Berkshire
ARDEN.
PINEGAR-COLLIER-HUGHES-JEFFERIES-HUNT-MOSS-FRY

Offline youngtug

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,796
    • View Profile
Re: John Potter (1779) black ancestor
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 22 November 18 13:24 GMT (UK) »

I thought that perhaps however my mum said that she thinks that both of John's parents probably were black as it would have been extremely rare to have a mixed race couple at that time.
[/quote]

No doubt in terms of % of population it would have been extremely rare, however, I am a mentor for ReadEasy which uses, in their reading scheme, the life story of Olaudah Equiano (also known as Gustavus Vassa). He was an African taken as a child slave. After many years at sea, during which time he saved the pennies he earned barbering for his fellow sailors, he eventually settled ashore and married a white woman.
[/quote]
////
The above quote is from the OP, not me. It is a snippet from my post saying that I do not agree with the quoted idea.
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/05q2/   
  WILSON;-Wiltshire.
 SOUL;-Gloucestershire.
 SANSUM;-Berkshire-Wiltshire
 BASSON-BASTON;- Berkshire,- Oxfordshire.
 BRIDGES;- Wiltshire.
 DOWDESWELL;-Wiltshire,Gloucestershire
 JORDAN;- Berkshire.
 COX;- Berkshire.
 GOUDY;- Suffolk.
 CHATFIELD;-Sussex-- London
 MORGAN;-Blaenavon-Abersychan
 FISHER;- Berkshire.
 BLOMFIELD-BLOOMFIELD-BLUMFIELD;-Suffolk.
DOVE. Essex-London
YOUNG-Berkshire
ARDEN.
PINEGAR-COLLIER-HUGHES-JEFFERIES-HUNT-MOSS-FRY