Why no digitisation of birth, mariage and death vital records?

[a chesters]

What exactly do you want to hand over?  Are you saying that the FreeBMD organisation has, or should have, privileged access to the GRO's register copies in order to scan them?  Are you aware that the work of FreeBMD is done by volunteers in their own homes?

I would hand over the management of the project, as FreeBMD has managed and produced a staggering large online resource.

I think that whoever was going to undertake such a project, could have privileged access to either GRO registers, or to those held at local registry offices.

Yes I am aware that the GRO work is done by volunteers; I'm not suggesting that the volunteers should be made to undertake a new project. Those that want to help, great. I think that volunteers help with FamilySearch records too.

I'm sure that when FreeBMD started, the thought of transcribing 370 million records was equally daunting, and others suggested it couldn't be done.

Hi

I feel that even if an organisation could get permission (which I doubt) to voluntarily transcribe every England and Wales GRO BMD Certificate, it would be a poor use of precious time. Virtually nearly every place has Census coverage and some other record during the Civil Registration period from 1837 to the current day.

I dabble in a bit of local history 1500 to 1840 and there are thousands of names tucked away hidden in a single Landowner, Manor or other Collections in UK Archives of which there are 1,000s of these Collections (of varying sizes) around the UK, plus crews in old shipping Musters etc., etc., some of whom will never appear in old Parish Registers. Nor will those names appear in Catholic and Nonconformist records, because many of which are missing records. Despite Hardwicke's Marriage Act, a few even refused to marry in church and therefore never formally married according to the Law.

Transcribing GRO BMD Certificates (*which are actually available by purchase) after searching two Indexes Free BMD and GRO Index and cross referencing with Census (Census almost complete) and all the other records like Directories, etc., etc., then transcribing the actual GRO Certificates is a massively bad use of precious time, when so many other older records of people, are hidden away undiscovered in Archives. -

That hidden Archive record of them 200 years ago or more, might now be the only proof they ever existed.

Mark

* Some Church Wedding Certificates and recently I noticed some of my family 19th Parish baptisms were available online since 1837 (not all were / are C of E or had children baptised).

I have the recollection, from some time ago, on one of the TV shows about genealogy and history, of a large repository of records which were held still by the local manor house. They were in books, and also rolls.

Just think of the information in them, and also the work required to digitise them, let alone transcribe them.

AC

[CarolA3]

I remember when I used to want to go and see the cave paintings of my ancestors, we used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

Martin

Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument or the full half hour? 

Carol

[AntonyMMM]

I have the recollection, from some time ago, on one of the TV shows about genealogy and history, of a large repository of records which were held still by the local manor house. They were in books, and also rolls.

Just think of the information in them, and also the work required to digitise them, let alone transcribe them.

Manorial Court records exist in many places, and would mostly be found in county archives.

They are an extremely valuable source for family research - for instance they will record deaths of tenants and a property being taken over by an an heir.

Some have been transcribed, at least partially - where I live they are fully transcribed and run from 1308 to 1936.

TNA have a searchable index of holdings, but I would always check with the local archives as well to check what they have.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/manor-search

[california dreamin]

I have been reading through this thread with interest.  It seems that some people appear to be unaware of LocalBMD projects.

Maybe have a read:  https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/localbmdproject

Actually using a LocalBMD entry combined with the FreeBMD entry can supply further information. For example,  entries can denote remarriages/other names, and most importantly the name of church the couple were married in for Anglican marriages.  Other entries may say (*Place*) Register Office or Registrar Attended.  A good clue for a Catholic or Non-com marriage.

I think some of you have been missing out! 

[Mart 'n' Al]

CarolA3, nice one!

Martin

[BushInn1746]

I have been reading through this thread with interest.  It seems that some people appear to be unaware of LocalBMD projects.

Maybe have a read:  https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/localbmdproject

Actually using a LocalBMD entry combined with the FreeBMD entry can supply further information. For example,  entries can denote remarriages/other names, and most importantly the name of church the couple were married in for Anglican marriages.  Other entries may say (*Place*) Register Office or Registrar Attended.  A good clue for a Catholic or Non-com marriage.

I think some of you have been missing out! 

Hello

I only want more:- name, place and date indexing of records along with an Index reference (not transcriptions of the whole records) from which I can order a Certified Copy or a photographic image / scan of the original from the reference given.

Also everytime something is transcribed errors can and do creep in.


When I order Will scans, I require a scan of the original Will Bundle that the Testator actually signed if still available, not a transcription from a Will Register, which itself was often copied speedily from the original Will Bundle into a Register Volume.

The point I was making was, why waste time transcribing each Certificate, when they are available as images?

Agree, Manor and Landowner manuscripts are a valuable rich source and time could be better spent, listing the names along with Folio & Cat finding references, amongst collections in UK Archives (some hidden names might be the only single surviving reference to that individual over 200+ years ago).

Signature Comparison
Transcribing is no good when you suddenly wish to compare signatures. A signature can sometimes tell you - this document is not an ancestor's.

It is no good having a document with the same name as your ancestor, but not an ancestor.

Secondary Document Checks
Where possible research should always be corroborated in a secondary document, where they survive.

Mark

[Guy Etchells]

Hello

I only want more:- name, place and date indexing of records along with an Index reference (not transcriptions of the whole records) from which I can order a Certified Copy or a photographic image / scan of the original from the reference given.

I think most researchers want the same but being realistic we understand how much it costs to scan, store and index digitised records. Most of us are thankful for the huge amount of cheap digital records that are available today.

Also everytime something is transcribed errors can and do creep in.

Most if not all transcribers a well aware of this that is why projects like FreeBMD etc. check and counter check the transcription to endeavour to cut down the errors.

 date=1542991672]When I order Will scans, I require a scan of the original Will Bundle that the Testator actually signed if still available, not a transcription from a Will Register, which itself was often copied speedily from the original Will Bundle into a Register Volume.

The point I was making was, why waste time transcribing each Certificate, when they are available as images? [/quote]

I wish it was so simple, many original will are no longer available and only the copies remain, in the same way many historic parish registers are no longer available only transcripts whether Bishop’s Transcripts, Archdeacon’s Transcripts or transcripts made by individuals in years gone by when the only method of copying was by transcribing. Not to mention that most early and quite a few later parish registers are transcripts of original registers not to mention day books.

[quote author=BushInn1746 link=topic=804060.msg6623186#msg6623186
Agree, Manor and Landowner manuscripts are a valuable rich source and time could be better spent, listing the names along with Folio & Cat finding references, amongst collections in UK Archives (some hidden names might be the only single surviving reference to that individual over 200+ years ago).[/quote]

Could it, I take it you have never been frustrated by having sight of such catalogue entries only to find that the records are in private hands and the owner will not allow public access to his records.

Signature Comparison[/u]
Transcribing is no good when you suddenly wish to compare signatures. A signature can sometimes tell you - this document is not an ancestor's.

It is no good having a document with the same name as your ancestor, but not an ancestor.

Secondary Document Checks
Where possible research should always be corroborated in a secondary document, where they survive.

Mark

You may be happy in discarding a record based on a signature I certainly would not after 60+ years of research I do not feel qualified to be sure that person x made their signature in a certain manner and I certainly would not claim a historic document was made by an ancestor based on a signature there are far too many variables for me to claim that.

Cheers
Guy

[a chesters]

The signature I use when signing a cheque, or withdrawal form at the bank is nothing like the signature I used when signing in at work. It was simply to state I had arrived, and had no legal basis.

[BushInn1746]

Hello

Yes, some people did have two written signatures too, one of my ancestors used two.

I have several specimens of my mystery Ancestor's, that he used when signing business documents and another when signing on church documents and his Will (identical, although frail on his Will).

Errors in Family Trees
After seeing some terrible errors in family trees online, I can't stress enough, that where you can afford to get a scan of the original document and you wish to, obtain it.

You often see information not transcribed, you get a general feel for the document and sometimes the witnesses can be related and be identified too.

At some places the cost of obtaining a partial transcription of a document is £30 per half hour, versus the cost of the scan of the whole document is sometimes little different in cost, sometimes an image scan of the whole document is cheaper and I can spend time reading it several times (if need be), rather than somebody hurrying to read it and writing it down. Often another person types it in, from another person's handwriting too.

I'm dead against the transcription, you don't want to get back 500 years, then somebody come along and produce an original document, confirming a more recent error, which completely demolishes your tree, making it null and void.

Mark