Author Topic: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.  (Read 1077 times)

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #18 on: Friday 23 November 18 18:39 GMT (UK) »
I don't remember where in the 20 page topic I read about the labour wife definition ...sorry .

Adoption wasn't official before 1915 I believe   I meant that DNA  could show if a child was a blood relative or not ...the official  2nd cousin definition is you share mutual great grandparents  or great grand children but it is only a guide

line to distance of relationship .For example  the man who shares a grandmother with my mother  comes out as  being  2nd cousin  closeness to her and 3rd cousin to me.
Whereas her true full cousin is   my  2nd cousin on DNA as well as on the family tree.

Mothers fathers sister your great aunt would come out as  1st.-2ndcousin relationship on dna her children would be official 2nd cousins.
Is that the result you got ?

So yes very useful to have cousins dna for elimination

You can look at younger generations for links too
1 of my paternal 4th cousin matches didn't know who his grandfather was but because  of his surnames I could work out he was 5x grandson of my grandfather's sister   .

Maybe your answers will come from someone whose DNA fits their tree except  to your link .....don't give up hope .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #19 on: Friday 23 November 18 19:30 GMT (UK) »
Adoption wasn't official before 1915 I believe   I
Actual date, in the UK, was 1st January 1927 ;D
That was following The Adoption Of Children Act 1926.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 24 November 18 19:25 GMT (UK) »
Did you ever find out how to look up French records ?
I found a way on Ancestry to put in births and focus collection on France

The 1st hit that came up with those first names was a Marie eliZa  Emilia Jaquinot
B 11 April 1871 in Marne France
You would have to list all girls with similar names and wait and see if you have any dna matches with French surnames

Also in Birth mariage death section there is a sub category for UK foreign and overseas as register of British subjects

And there is a section for BMW at sea

But probably not worth trawling through unless you have any proof of their original birth names .
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Braytons

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 24 November 18 20:58 GMT (UK) »
Did you ever find out how to look up French records ?
I found a way on Ancestry to put in births and focus collection on France

The 1st hit that came up with those first names was a Marie eliZa  Emilia Jaquinot
B 11 April 1871 in Marne France
You would have to listen all girls with similar names and wait and see if you have any dna matches with French surnames

Also in Birth mariage death section there is a sub category for UK foreign and ovelse as register of British subjects

And there is a section for BMW at sea

But probably not worth trawling through unless you have any proof of their original birth names .

Thank you brigidmac

No I haven't done the French records yet.  I am going to get the Worldwide subscription soon and will be able to have a search.  The entry you found sounds very interesting.  What an amazing coincidence of names!  Or maybe it is her, although the dob is incorrect. Her birthday was 6 June 1875. Also the census says South of France but the Marne is in the north.

Thank you for the help.  I had not thought of looking out for French surnames in the matches, good thought.  I will keep you posted of any developments.
Braytons

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 24 November 18 21:18 GMT (UK) »
Also In uk foreign & overseas register theres  a record of
 Joseph.VINCENT  military man and wife Ellen
BIrths of their  4 children
CAtherine 11 July 1865 & Charles roBert  17 july 1869 in Kingston
Maria Elizabeth 1 July 1870 and Helen  22 Aug 1872 in Malta

In 1881 Joseph is a pensioner wife and eldest children listed as born Canada
Ellen
*  marie elizabeth 8 ( modified )
*And a younger brother age 6 born Malta

So a seafaring family could well have children born France and south America. .there are plenty of entries for Chile and Argentina. .

I wonder if you can see if any other children Mary Vincent boarded were from naval or army families ... Daisy (Margaret)Hughes  in 1851 had an army father

& if this Vincent family is connected to yours ?
Father Joseph born in Cornwall. .think it says penzance

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Braytons

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 24 November 18 22:09 GMT (UK) »
Also In uk foreign & overseas register theres  a record of
 Joseph.vincent military man and wife Ellen
BIrths of their  4 children
CAtherine 11 July 1865 & Charles roBert  17 july 1869 in Kingston
Maria Elizabeth 1 July 1870 and Helen  22 Aug 1872 in Malta

In 1881 Joseph is a pensioner wife and eldest children listed as borequested Canada
Ellen  born Malta
No sign of Maria Elizabeth
And a younger brother age 6 born Cornwall

So a seafaring family could well have children born France and south America. .there are plenty of entries for Chili and Argentina. .

I wonder if you can see if any of the children Mary Vincent boarded were from naval or army families ... Daisy (Margaret)H was mentioned
& if this Vincent family is connected to yours ?
Father Joseph born in Cornwall. .think it says penzance

Wow, all that will keep me busy.  Thank you for all your efforts. 

Just shows you that children were born abroad and brought back here to England.  When I first found the 1881, I found it difficult to imagine a family like them travelling abroad.  Robert/George Vincent was only a Cabman. 

However Robert/George Vincent's father was a seaman.  His name was Benjamin Vincent b.1794.  So there is a possibility of children coming from abroad.  Benjamin Vincent had a brother called Joseph.  But if I have the correct family they all came from Suffolk, don't remember any mention of Cornwall.  Vincent is a quite common Cornish surname.

Could you tell me what search facility did you use, Ancestry, Find my Past etc? 

Thank you again.
Braytons


Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 24 November 18 23:29 GMT (UK) »
I used Ancestry  but find searches hard on there
I played around with French data a bit .
But can't get any censuses
The French do like to go in for severa names
I couldn't find a death or marriage for  Marie eliza emilie Jaquinot and there seemed to be 2 birth dates and a possible sister Marie rose

The parents marriage was 15th Feb 1870 Isidore Emilien Jaquinot b 1842 married
Marie Elizabeth Angeline Herriard b1847

Wouldn't it be thrilling if their daughter was your grandmother..named partly after her paternal grandmother Marie Emilie Baudot or aunt Marie Amelia Jaquinot

Probably just a name coincidence

I found a death for Isidore in 1878 in Ponthion also in Marne..Champagne region !

Ps are you sure it says south of France. ..there is a line crossed through and first letter could be a N
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 25 November 18 10:31 GMT (UK) »
To add to the Mystery
Mary Vincent got herself baptised as an adult in 1883 naming Luke and Sarah York  as her parents.

I'm fascinated by this family have set out a chart to make more sense
DNA matches with your cousins who have VINCENT/ REEVE grand parents  would not prove the adoption theory
There would be no  DNA 2nd cousins if robert/ j/ George Vincent and Mary Yorke had no bIrth children  and Robert richard descendants if linked to you could be if they adopted  siblings .
Why not contact tree holders of descendants of Luke and Susan Yorke and Benjamin and Ellen Vincent and ask if any have done the DNA test as you?  They could have 4th cousin matches or may be interested in helping you solve your mystery if no name matches among distant cousins trees at all .. you then have to look at surnames which keep cropping up to give clues to birth parents .
Can I ask what your ethnicity results gave ? Any European?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline Braytons

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Re: Finding an adopted child's real parents 1870's.
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 25 November 18 10:51 GMT (UK) »
To add to the Mystery
Mary Vincent got herself baptised as an adult in 1883 naming Luke and Sarah York  as her parents.

I'm fascinated by this family have set out a chart to make more sense
DNA matches with your cousins who have VINCENT/ REEVE grand parents  would not prove the adoption theory
There would be no  DNA 2nd cousins if robert/ j/ George Vincent and Mary Yorke had no bIrth children  and Robert richard descendants if linked to you could be if they adopted  siblings .
Why not contact tree horders of descendants of Luke and Susan Yorke and Benjamin and Ellen Vincent and ask if any have done the DNA test as you?  They could have 4th cousin matches or may be interested in helping you solve your mystery if no name matches among distant cousins trees at all .. you then have to look at surnames which keep cropping up to give clues to birth parents .
Can I ask what your ethnicity results gave ? Any European?

Hi

Don't have any cousins from the Yorke side of the family.  I don't think there any children of Robert or George, have not been able to find any.  Yes I have been looking for a possible match to a woman/man who is close but has no paper records to show they are related.  That would only be if they were adopted or born abroad.  I don't have a huge extended family who I am in contact with.  My sister is going to have a test but I doubt that will help alot.

The foreign births look so possible.  I will try to make sense of it all.   We made a chart of Robert, George and Mary's lives to try to make sense of whether they were the same man. 

This is my ethnicity result.  There is a German connection 3 generations back so that would account for that.  It also covers western Europe but its a fraction so I would have thought statistically irrelevant.

England, Wales & Northwestern Europe
91%
Southern England
Norway
3%
Ireland and Scotland
3%
Germanic Europe
3%

Thank you again
Braytons