Sarah Elizabeth Spencer and Ellis Spencer

[cherylg]

Hi

Can anyone help please?

Sarah Elizabeth Stevenson married my Great Uncle Frank Spencer in May 1915 in Cheshire in October of the same year Frank got killed on the Somme.
We thought there was no children from the Marriage.
Sarah was an Irish Girl whose parents lived in Kilda Street in Belfast.

On November 11th 2018 I had a message from Frank and Sarah's Grandson also called Frank Spencer he was trying to trace his Grandfathers family.

As you can imagine to hear from someone we didn't even know existed was a lovely shock and to happen on Remembrance Day made it even more amazing.
His fathers name was Ellis Spencer born in February 1916, Ellis left Frank and his Mum when Frank was very young and Frank knows nothing about him

His mother had passed away and he had found papers with information about his Grandfather Frank

We cant find any trace of Sarah or her son Ellis after his birth
We are wondering if after Ellis's birth in 1916 she returned to Belfast

Can anybody find any records in Northern Ireland for either of them.

Here's hoping.

Rgds
Cheryl

[Elwyn Soutter]

Cheryl,

There’s a marriage on 18.8.1941 in Belfast between Ellis Spencer and Margaret Patterson. Might be your family. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

[cherylg]

Elwyn

I have just looked - yes thats is them
Thank you so much

Rgds
Cheryl

[Elwyn Soutter]

Cheryl,

If you think Ellis died in Northern Ireland it is possible to search for his death and for a will, if he left one. Death records are on-line to 1968 (ie 50 years ago), on the GRONI site. After that you need to go into GRONI or PRONI in Belfast to search.  Deaths within the past 50 years are only accessible there.

Probate abstracts for wills are on-line on the PRONI site up to about 1966. I didn’t see one for Ellis. So if probate on his estate was granted  in Northern Ireland then it was after that. The index records (will calendars) post 1966 are in paper format, as are the probate files. Again a trip to PRONI is required to search them. They go up to 2007. If probate was granted within the past 10 years, Belfast Probate Office would still have the file.

[aghadowey]

There weren't that many Spencers in Belfast but I can't be sure this address relates to Ellis and his wife Margaret.

1943 directory- E. Spencer at 3 Hunt St.- LINK
In 1951 it's Mrs. M. Spencer there- LINK (not at that address in 1960)

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Frank Spencer b~1890 d 11 October Somme 1915 CWG website gives buried at CORBIE COMMUNAL CEMETERY Private Frank Spencer, Service Number 9038, Died 11/10/1915
Aged 25 1st Bn.Cheshire Regiment, Son of Edwin and Elizabeth Spencer, of Burland, Nantwich, Cheshire; husband of Mrs. S. E. Spencer, of 71, St. Kilda St., Belfast.  m May 1915 Nantwich Cheshire Sarah Elizabeth Stevenson, widowed  four months later.
children
Ellis Spencer b Feb 1916 Nantwich Cheshire possibly married
1. m in or before 1942 as a Frank Spencer Frank A Spencer b Apr-Jun 1942 Hammersmith b with a spencer maiden name mother see https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
2. m Jul-Sept 1947 NE Cheshire Florence A Holland  [https://www.freebmd.org.uk]
Ellis’s wife has died. Ellis left his family when young did he marry again there are 5 ES marriages since 1947 listed[https://www.freebmd.org.uk]
children
Frank Spencer b, when and where many births listed on [https://www.freebmd.org.uk]

questions arising
Street directories see http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk
1912 St Kilda St
No Stevenson found
1918 St Kilda St
No 71 Mrs Stevenson.  No Spencer found in Street
1924 Bridge End Queen's Bridge to Mountpottinger Road
Schomberg Terrace
   2. Spencer, Mrs. E., tobacconist and confectioner
Frank the grandson might remember if his mother was called Sarah or Elizanbeth

Ireland census 1901 no Stevenson found in St Kilda Street
Ireland census 1911 no Stevenson found in St Kilda Street, has two entries for full name one 70 yr old the other 1 year old.

checked https://dof.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/burialSearch.aspx
which has 45 Spencer but none relevant

didn’t check Millfield catholic cemetery Belfast,
keep going, the more frank can remember the easier it might become

[aghadowey]

The Mrs. E. Spencer at 2 Bridge St. is Elizabeth- she died 1943 age 63 and buried Dundonald Cemetery- LINK

Will extract- Spencer Elizabeth of 2 Bridge End Belfast married woman died 5 January 1943 at Belfast Union Hospital Probate Belfast 16 April to Robert James Spencer constable in R.U.C. Effects £3093 1s. 11d.

R.J. Spencer also appeared in various Belfast directories but since the Spencers were from Cheshire (it was the Stevenson in Belfast) there wasn't any point in posting those details earlier.

Ellis' marriage in 1941 was in Belfast and his first name seems to be Ellis.

[cherylg]

Hi Everyone


Thank you for your help so far I've found out
That Ellis Spencer married a Margaret Pattison in August 1941

The family then vanish again no sign of a death for either of them

I know from their son Frank that Ellis left the family when Frank was very young he cant even remember  him

So where did he go and what happened to his Mother Sarah Elizabeth Spencer.

Again thank you

Cheryl

[Elwyn Soutter]

There’s a Sarah Spencer death in Armagh on 20.11.1950 aged 63, and another in Lurgan on 18.10.1962 aged 63. I suppose the first looks to be the more likely age. Though ages can be wrong on death certificates.

For Ellis, who probably died more recently, you would need to check in PRONI or GRONI as explained in my earlier post. You could also search the Scottish deaths on Scotlandspeople and English death records on Ancestry. You can check the records for the Republic of Ireland up to 1966 on the irishgenealogy site.  (After that it can be tricky to trace someone in the Republic without an idea of when they died).

You might also try the passenger lists on ancestry and findmypast. To see if he went overseas somewhere.