Patrick & Bridget FAHEY 1871

[clancam37]

Hi Wivenhoe,
You have created an air of mystery suggesting I need to see this marriage certificate.
What does "it will ask for names of parents" mean?.
Is there doubt re parentage?
Will check with BMDs Office re price of Marriage certificate & decide as I am an Aged Pensioner.
Kind regards
clancam37

You need to see this certificate -

BDM NZ marriage
1908/7112   FAHEY John   m. LANDER Ellen Esther   

It will ask for names of parents.

[wivenhoe]

You need to look at this page, which will identify what information would be asked for on a BDM registration, at what time. The inclusion of that information will depend on what the informant knew, but it will be asked for......

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/timeline

Bridget FAHEY died in 1877, when there would be good information asked for on her death certificate, including names of parents.

Bridget's husband, Patrick, is at home when she dies, so you might reasonably expect that he is the source of information about the origins of his wife, even if he is not formally recorded as the informant.

Bridget's death was followed by an inquest, and in such cases the information on (delayed) death certificate might be compromised ie. less detailed. 

For that reason I would suggest that you hold off getting the death printout for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877.

This would seem to be the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY, son of Bridget and Patrick, and born in NZ. 

BDM NZ marriage
1908/7112   FAHEY John   m. LANDER Ellen Esther

Looking at the timeline link that I have given you, you can see what information would be asked for in 1908, for a marriage record in NZ.  It would ask for parents names, and then you would have a family name for his mother Bridget.

At this stage you do not have a death certificate for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877. You do not have a death certificate for Patrick FAHEY, died....when?...where?

You do not have any knowledge of daughter Mary FAHEY, or any child, other than Johnny, born in New Zealand.  You do not know if widower (1877) Patrick FAHEY remarried. If he did not remarry, you might wonder who looked after the three children mentioned at 1877........might be relatives.

Knowing that Patrick and Bridget FAHEY have "Native Place Galway" in the shipping record is not going to get you very far. The printout of the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY would be useful to you.

In researching the origins of Bridget and Patrick FAHEY, you need to concentrate on the possibilities that NZ sources offer you, for events in the lives of their family, and the clues to find, the better to locate them in Ireland.

Is Johnny FAHEY your ancestor?

[clancam37]

Hi Wivenhoe,
It seems important to purchase the 1908 of Fahey/Lander, Marriage Certificate to learn more. Will do this.
Thanks for your replies and suggestions -- you appear to have much information & possibly ancestral knowledge of this family and many thanks for steering me in the right direction.  Bridget Fahey died in 1877, have re-read the Inquest report in the Temuka Herald December 1877.  Had forgotten it mentioned three children living and three deceased. Living would have been John (Johnny), possibly his sister Mary born Ireland and another.  The BMD New Zealand births and deaths provide no clues re children living or dead.
Patrick died September 1904 at Christchurch.  Another Patrick Fahey of Temuka died in 1935 -- was he a Son?  Don't know.  It seems Bridget & Patrick struggled after arrival in New Zealand and their children as well.  Very sad. Currently searching Probate Records 1843 - 1998 (Family Search) for more evidence.
Thanks again for your help.
Kind regards
clancam37 

You need to look at this page, which will identify what information would be asked for on a BDM registration, at what time. The inclusion of that information will depend on what the informant knew, but it will be asked for......

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/timeline

Bridget FAHEY died in 1877, when there would be good information asked for on her death certificate, including names of parents.

Bridget's husband, Patrick, is at home when she dies, so you might reasonably expect that he is the source of information about the origins of his wife, even if he is not formally recorded as the informant.

Bridget's death was followed by an inquest, and in such cases the information on (delayed) death certificate might be compromised ie. less detailed. 

For that reason I would suggest that you hold off getting the death printout for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877.

This would seem to be the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY, son of Bridget and Patrick, and born in NZ. 

BDM NZ marriage
1908/7112   FAHEY John   m. LANDER Ellen Esther

Looking at the timeline link that I have given you, you can see what information would be asked for in 1908, for a marriage record in NZ.  It would ask for parents names, and then you would have a family name for his mother Bridget.

At this stage you do not have a death certificate for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877. You do not have a death certificate for Patrick FAHEY, died....when?...where?

You do not have any knowledge of daughter Mary FAHEY, or any child, other than Johnny, born in New Zealand.  You do not know if widower (1877) Patrick FAHEY remarried. If he did not remarry, you might wonder who looked after the three children mentioned at 1877........might be relatives.

Knowing that Patrick and Bridget FAHEY have "Native Place Galway" in the shipping record is not going to get you very far. The printout of the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY would be useful to you.

In researching the origins of Bridget and Patrick FAHEY, you need to concentrate on the possibilities that NZ sources offer you, for events in the lives of their family, and the clues to find, the better to locate them in Ireland.

Is Johnny FAHEY your ancestor?

[wivenhoe]

The document that you need to buy is a printout...not certificate. When you find the record it will have .....order...at the right hand side.  Select a printout.

[clancam37]

Hullo Wivenhoe,
Heeding your advice I purchased the NZ 1908/7112 marriage certificate, FAHEY/LANDER.  The document arrived only yesterday.  As John was about 2 years old when his mother died he was probably cared for by another family, Aunt/Uncle, Cousins, or other.  The Patrick and Margaret Fahey shown as parents on marriage certificate. Note  Margaret nee JOYCE shown as Mother.
Patrick(1923)  and Margaret(1916) are possibly the couple buried at Andersons Bay Cemetery Dunedin. Was the biological father, Patrick FAHEY  died at Christchurch Hospital 1903? Or did Patrick marry a Margaret JOYCE (relative of Bridget FAHEY) after the death of his first Wife in 1877?
My research is being done for a friend of mine, a direct descendant of John Fahey, I am not a descendant. Many thanks for your advice and hope you may be able to shed more light on these people.
Kind regards
clancam37

You need to look at this page, which will identify what information would be asked for on a BDM registration, at what time. The inclusion of that information will depend on what the informant knew, but it will be asked for......

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/timeline

Bridget FAHEY died in 1877, when there would be good information asked for on her death certificate, including names of parents.

Bridget's husband, Patrick, is at home when she dies, so you might reasonably expect that he is the source of information about the origins of his wife, even if he is not formally recorded as the informant.

Bridget's death was followed by an inquest, and in such cases the information on (delayed) death certificate might be compromised ie. less detailed. 

For that reason I would suggest that you hold off getting the death printout for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877.

This would seem to be the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY, son of Bridget and Patrick, and born in NZ. 

BDM NZ marriage
1908/7112   FAHEY John   m. LANDER Ellen Esther

Looking at the timeline link that I have given you, you can see what information would be asked for in 1908, for a marriage record in NZ.  It would ask for parents names, and then you would have a family name for his mother Bridget.

At this stage you do not have a death certificate for Bridget FAHEY, died 1877. You do not have a death certificate for Patrick FAHEY, died....when?...where?

You do not have any knowledge of daughter Mary FAHEY, or any child, other than Johnny, born in New Zealand.  You do not know if widower (1877) Patrick FAHEY remarried. If he did not remarry, you might wonder who looked after the three children mentioned at 1877........might be relatives.

Knowing that Patrick and Bridget FAHEY have "Native Place Galway" in the shipping record is not going to get you very far. The printout of the marriage record for Johnny FAHEY would be useful to you.

In researching the origins of Bridget and Patrick FAHEY, you need to concentrate on the possibilities that NZ sources offer you, for events in the lives of their family, and the clues to find, the better to locate them in Ireland.

Is Johnny FAHEY your ancestor?

[wivenhoe]

That document, marriage 1908, will be useful to your research. Is it a printout....image of a handwritten document?

Can you please list all the information on the document. It should have names, ages, occupations, addresses, church, witnesses etc....everything please, and in list form.

[clancam37]

Hullo Wivenhoe,
Prior to purchase of Marriage 1908/7112 I inquired of BMD NZ which form would give me the most information, they replied a Printout-- which  I obtained .  If possible I will attach a copy of the 1908/5692 marriage for you. Note the different registration number!
There are a large number of people with surname FAHEY, the Patrick/Margaret FAHEY of St. Bathans had a large family.
Trust we are not abusing the Forum with the weight of our correspondence.
Kind regards
clancam37

That document, marriage 1908, will be useful to your research. Is it a printout....image of a handwritten document?

Can you please list all the information on the document. It should have names, ages, occupations, addresses, church, witnesses etc....everything please, and in list form.

[wivenhoe]

The certificate is good information. You can see that it is all written in the same hand. It is the civil record of the marriage, being a transcription from the original record made in the marriage log for the Catholic Cathedral in Christchurch.

If you were able to see the church original, and I am not suggesting that you do, it might be easier to make out the name of the witnesses, which I see as Thomas Joseph CONLON....and.......Mary LLOYD.  (I am hoping it is Mary LLOYD).

If John and Ellen had remained in Christchurch, I would suggest that you look for baptism records for their children, in the same church, to see names of godparents, who are often close relatives. But such baptisms could be at other churches.

I am not getting anywhere with Thomas Joseph CONLON (CONLAN?) as a possible connection to the FAHEY family.

Lyttleton Times 5 Sep 1904 p8
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19040906.2.102.7?
 Friends of the late Mr Patrick  FAHEY, late of Loburn, are respectfully, informed his Funeral will leave the residence of his son Mr John FAHEY, Martin’s Lane, Hillmorion at 1.30 p.m., on Tuesday, the 6th day September, 1904, for St Mary’s Catholic Church thence to the Linwood Cemetery.

Database for Christchurch Cemeteries
http://heritage.christchurchcitylibraries.com/Cemeteries/

Linwood Cemetery Plot 54  Block 40   

FAHEY Patrick died 25th, buried 30th Sept 1904
labourer, age 60, 35 years in New Zealand.

FAHEY Mary died 25th buried 30 Jun 1891
age 50 years, 16 years in New Zealand

Lyttleton Times 29 Jun 1891
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18910629.2.3.1?
The friends of Mr E (F?) LLOYD, Halswell, are respectfully informed that the funeral of his late sister-in-law, Mary FAHY, will leave his residence, Prebbleton Junction Road.....Public Cemetery Christchurch.

I think the death and burial information, Patrick FAHEY 1904, is a good match for your Patrick.

[wivenhoe]

I think this is your FAHEY family in New Zealand -

From FamilySearch, NZ immigrants -
Arrived "Merope"  Canterbury
FAHEY Patrick, 29 years (born ~ 1842), wife Bridget, daughter Mary.

Above their names is notation "Fitzgibbon Rolleston" Another notation to the left, which I am unable to transcribe.

Patrick FAHEY, late of Loburn d. 1904, and buried in plot with Mary FAHEY, died 1891, age 50. Mary is sister-in-law of E LLOYD, Halswell.

Press  31 Dec 1914 p4
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19141231.2.23.1?
...Norah LLOYD, 79...Mary LLOYD 40.......running a brothel.....idle disorderly etc......

New Zealand Truth 2 Feb 1907  p6
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTR19070202.2.48.1?
....maintenance...paternity...William HAYES......child born to Mary LLOYD 16 Aug 1906.....Mary's mother is Norah LLOYD.....father is Emanuel LLOYD........Mary is 30 years old and has an older child.....

See FamilySearch for this -
The Estate of Bridget FITZGIBBON died intestate, 1887     
Estate of Bridget FITZGIBBON, formerly the wife of Patrick FITZGIBBON of Loburn, 
Executors Norah LLOYD wife of Emmanuel LLOYD of Papanui and Alfred Edward TUTTON..
...sale of her (Bridget's) farm at Rolleston......

Affidavit James WALLACE  (image 37)...
.......from England "Tongariro" in company with Patrick FITZGIBBON and his wife Bridget FITZGIBBON....Bridget died 28 Nov 1887 and buried at sea

Statement Norah LLOYD (image 41).....Bridget went to Ireland......Bridget has surviving her, one brother and no more Patrick FAHEY of Loburn...three sisters...Ellen HAYES of Halswell, Mary FAHEY, spinster, and myself.....
Whereabouts of Patrick FITZGIBBON unknown.......

* Norah LLOYD signs with her mark.

When Patrick FAHEY arrived in NZ, 1871, he had sisters Ellen, Bridget and Norah living there. They had arrived as single women. Sister Mary arrived after Patrick...1871+...


BDM NZ marriage
1867/7372   FAHY Bridget                      m.  FITZGIBBON Patrick
1868/6005   FAHEY AKA FARHEA   Ellen     m.  HAYES William   
1869/7317   FAY Norah Hannah                m.  LLOYD Emmanuel

BDM NZ birth
906/16105   LLOYD   James Cyril                            parents    Mary   / -    
1896/13487   LLOYD   William Francis Harold Hayes   parents    Mary   / -