Author Topic: Surname change..... why?  (Read 1211 times)

Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 02:26 GMT (UK) »
There are two prisoners

Daniel Gavin 32 yrs single Labourer b Sheffield
Daniel Gavin 28yrs married Tailor b Salford

A newspaper snippet 1909 mentions the attempted murder of Maggie Gavin by her husband Daniel 27yrs.

There are a couple of other snippets re theft.

1909 - 27 years old at the time of the attempted murder makes this Daniel born approx 1882
1909 - 32 years old makes the other Daniel born approx 1877

Your Daniel, you say was born 1878, so that makes him the 32-year-old

Daniel Gavin who was 21 at the time of marriage in 1897 to Jane Southern was born in 1876

Can we presume the newspaper clippings are not matching the actual event here ????

Could both Daniel's actually be related and that is why you are hearing stories that may relate to the 2 Daniel's as if both were one . . . 

The one which had attempted to murder his then-wife, well he was well suited to an asylum . . .

Your Daniel, if unrelated, just why he sent to an asylum after attending prison . . . 

Does lunacy run through the family in any way . . .

So who is Daniel Gavin born 1882 and who are his parents and do they relate to Joseph Giverin father to Daniel born 1877 eg: are the 2 Daniels Gavin's cousins . . . 

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Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 02:51 GMT (UK) »
Witnesses to Daniel’s marriage to Jane Southern were John and Annie Watts.

There is a marriage -1894 John Watts and Annie Gaven. Unfortunately it is not online.

Daniel had a Sister Annie. Perhaps it is her.

I can’t see the Watts couple in censuses.

And if so, we have yet another variation of the surname Gavin . . .

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Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 02:59 GMT (UK) »
Just in case you have not seen it a crime and punishment record from 1909 names him as Daniel Gavin alias Daniel Giverin and Daniel Nelson. ( So a further alias! ). He seems to have been sent to Parkhurst first. He appears to have been released 17 July 1912, the intended address being the asylum in Lancaster.  Record gives pob as Sheffield and occupation as labourer.

A burial record from1935 gives a burial date of 18 Jan 1935 in Lancaster - residence given as The County Mental Hospital.

William

Making his death age around 58 - still a young chap by all accounts - I wonder what the cause of death was . . .

Name:                    Daniel Gavin
Death Age:            55
Birth Date:            abt 1880
Registration Date:    Mar 1935
Registration district:    Lancaster
Inferred County:    Lancashire

On death without a correct birthdate - there is far too much scope here to say which one it is - is this Daniel born 1879 by census or Daniel Garvin born 1882 - a marriage aged 21 in 1897 making the birth 1876 - the dates are not half bobbin' around a bit here . . .

You have given the burial date of the 18th of Jan 1935 - burial, not death - yet it has not been registered until Mar 1935 - it is quite normal for asylums to collect the death dates and register them as a whole, possible at the end of the month - but this is 3 months here . . . 

Offline mirl

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 04:20 GMT (UK) »
I looked at this earlier and now see that others ahve picked up the two Daniel Gavin's and if I remember rightly they both had Irish fathers.

Perhaps the family needs to be traced back into Ireland to see if the Giverin name originates there.
Richardson, Sherman, Gillam, Hitchcock, Neighbour, Groom, Walton, Strange, Littleford, Brown, Guy, Abbs, Tasker, Bartlett, Farey, Etteridge

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Offline chempat

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 06:56 GMT (UK) »
'You have given the burial date of the 18th of Jan 1935 - burial, not death - yet it has not been registered until Mar 1935 - it is quite normal for asylums to collect the death dates and register them as a whole, possible at the end of the month - but this is 3 months here . . .'

Registered March quarter 1935, so died from January to March...

Offline Vendee

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 09:58 GMT (UK) »
Wow, I posted a reply last night and had an early night. I was so surprised to see so many incredibly helpful replies this morning. I would like to state that although I've been researching my family tree for a couple of years, I'm essentially a beginner. Also in my original post, because I was asking about the surname change, I didn't disclose everything I knew about Daniel Gavin/Giverin.

Heywood, thanks for the prisoner info. I think you are right, the older Daniel Gavin is my relative. The person who told me that my relative was in prison for attempted murder obviously got confused with the younger guy. Doh! You are spot on about John and Annie Watts as the wedding witnesses. They are indeed Daniel's sister and brother in law. Why didn't I twig that? I was only researching those two a couple of days ago.

Ruskie, I don't know when Daniel's parents (Joseph & Mary Ann) died. I think Mary Ann may have died first because in the 1901 census I have a Joseph Gavin aged 62 living alone in Salford. I can't find out what happened to Mary Ann Gavin neé Smith.

Millmoor, thanks for that. I've been in contact with an 82 year old distant relative that I've never met who lives in Canada . He has also been researching the family tree. He is one generation older than me so Daniel was his grandfather. He told me that his own father had spoke about Daniel. He said that Daniels wife's family had arranged to have him institutionalised and that he had ended up in Lancaster. He said he might have had a drink problem but all the evidence now seems to point to some mental illness or other affliction. I had already noted that Daniel had attended St Josephs industrial school aged 12. I'm not sure why he would have been sent there. Perhaps, to use today's terminology, he had special needs.

Indiana, you asked if lunacy runs in the family? My wife is beginning to think so  ;D

Once again, thanks to *everyone* who has replied. I only asked why the surname had changed but I received so much new and valuable information about my family tree and I'm very grateful.

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 10:03 GMT (UK) »
I have 13 variations of one surname, with 2 different starting letters (H and I), and no idea what the ‘real’ one is  ::)
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Online heywood

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 10:19 GMT (UK) »
I have 13 variations of one surname, with 2 different starting letters (H and I), and no idea what the ‘real’ one is  ::)

In the case of Daniel, I would incline to a change because of ‘circumstances’. There may be criminal or newspaper records re Gavin/Giverin/Nelson which Millmoor refers to.

As with variations, my married and maiden names both have various spelling differences according to which branch of the family believes they are right  ;)
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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 10:22 GMT (UK) »
Indeed, sorry Heywood, and of course the Nelson one is hardly a variation.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....