Surname change..... why?

[heywood]

Yes, hopefully there is an explanation somewhere re Nelson - in a criminal report 

[Millmoor]

For what it is worth I do not think that there is a kinship connection between the 2 Daniels.

Daniel born Sheffield - parents Joseph Gavin and Mary Ann Smith was baptised , as were his siblings, as  a Roman Catholic. There is a possible birth for Joseph in Roscommon .( There is a West Yorkshire prison record from 1885 for a Joseph Gavin of Sheffield b Roscommon  age 47 who was given 7 days for not sending a child to school).

Daniel born Salford -parents  Alexander Gavin and Rosetta McKeowan were from co. Down, N Ireland and were protestants. They married in Glasgow and their eldest son Alexander was born there. ( Criminal records show that this Daniel had aliases as well - he was known as Daniel William and William Daniel!).

I wonder, Vendee, if it might be worth contacting Lancashire Archives as it would appear that the records for Lancaster Asylum are  housed there.

William

[heywood]

I agree with most of your findings Millmoor but the other Daniel gives his father as James Gavin, deceased ,Dyer. 

[Vendee]

Millmoor, thanks. I was aware of the Roscommon connection. I have Josephs baptism record from 1839 in Roscommon. I had also spotted Joseph's seven day prison term for failing to send his child to school. I'm sure that must have been Daniel. You mentioned in an earlier post that Daniel had been in Parkhurst at one point. I wasn't aware of that..... where can I find that information?

I did contact Lancashire records office earlier this year. The asylum was known as Lancaster Moor Hospital. Records are available for inspection but only in person. As I live in Norfolk, its a bit of a trek but maybe sometime in the future. Thanks again.

[Millmoor]

I see what you mean, Heywood!  If he is the Daniel below perhaps he did not know much about his father.

 LookIing at the Groindex  the only birth for a Daniel Gavin in 1883 + or -2 is in Chorlton - mmn McKeowan.

Possible death for Rosetta Gavin in Rochdale RD 1886. There are also workhouse registers showing a Daniel Gavin being admitted to the workhouse  in 1888 age 4, with in two cases the word deserted. He is there with siblings Rosetta, Martha and Alexander.  There are records for Alexander in Canada incl.marriage in Ontario. The Canada archives records for Home Chidren show that Martha and Rosetta (and possibly Alexander) were emigrated  to Canada from the Chorlton workhouse. No sign of Daniel.

Can you see either Daniel in 1901?

William

Added was just about to post when I saw your post,Vendee. Have a look at the criminal records on FindMyPast - if you enter the name Daniel Gavin records for both Daniels come up. It is the one for 1909 which adds the alias Nelson which says Parkhurst.

[Maiden Stone]

            but in this case, his correct name was entered in the marriage banns (see image) and then altered to the surname I now have. The marriage certificate itself uses the new name.

Were these banns from same church as the wedding?

[Maiden Stone]

Millmoor, thanks. I was aware of the Roscommon connection. I have Josephs baptism record from 1839 in Roscommon.

I did contact Lancashire records office earlier this year. The asylum was known as Lancaster Moor Hospital. Records are available for inspection but only in person. As I live in Norfolk, its a bit of a trek but maybe sometime in the future. Thanks again.

The 1839 Roscommon baptism may not be the correct Joseph. A lot of parishes don't have  registers from that time - his baptism record may not have survived. My grandmother had Gavin connections in a Mayo parish with registers from 1820s but sorting them out is not easy and sometimes impossible.

If you are unable to travel to Lancashire Archives, you can ask for a look-up. There's a thread dedicated to it. Go to Lancashire sub-board and look at Resources, Links and Offers sections.

Happy Lancashire Day (today) 

[Vendee]

Maiden Stone, to answer your earlier question, Daniel's marriage banns and wedding were both at the same church. You may be right about the Roscommon Joseph not being the correct one. I initially assumed that the record referred to Roscommon town, in which case I think it would be my Joseph but on checking again, its actually Roscommon county and that the Joseph I'm looking at was actually baptised in the town of Boyle, Roscommon county. It may still be him but obviously I can't be sure at the moment.

Thanks for the advice about asking for help on the Lancashire sub boards.

[brigidmac]

Regarding Industrial schools I don't think they were designed with criminal children in mind more for orphans or children whose parents couldn't care for them .for boys often focus was on a trade such as tailor or  carpentry .girls learnt dressmaking etc .Was the Daniel who'd been deserted as a child the 1 who later had mental health diagnosis ?