Author Topic: Surname change..... why?  (Read 1190 times)

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 26 November 18 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Good finds heywood.  :)

A thought .... although in this case Gavin and Giverin are probably variations of the same surname, we sometimes see people using different surnames through their lives and it can be due to their mother remarrying and they use their birth surname on some documents and the surname of their stepfather on others. Do you know if Daniel's father died and his mother remarried?


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Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 26 November 18 23:44 GMT (UK) »
The younger one married Margaret Taylor in 1904 at Harpurhey, Christ Church. So he was the one who committed attempted murder.

Could that be Harpurhey prison they got married I wonder . . .

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Offline heywood

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 26 November 18 23:57 GMT (UK) »
The younger one married Margaret Taylor in 1904 at Harpurhey, Christ Church. So he was the one who committed attempted murder.

Could that be Harpurhey prison they got married I wonder . . .

 ??? They got married at Christ Church. I donít understand... it isnít the same Daniel though.
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 00:03 GMT (UK) »
Just in case you have not seen it a crime and punishment record from 1909 names him as Daniel Gavin alias Daniel Giverin and Daniel Nelson. ( So a further alias! ). He seems to have been sent to Parkhurst first. He appears to have been released 17 July 1912, the intended address being the asylum in Lancaster.  Record gives pob as Sheffield and occupation as labourer.

A burial record from1935 gives a burial date of 18 Jan 1935 in Lancaster - residence given as The County Mental Hospital.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline heywood

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 00:07 GMT (UK) »
Oh dear.

Sometimes people altered their name as a result of an event such as crime, desertion from the military, a bigamous marriage etc. There may be a criminal act around the time he married.
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Offline Indiana.59

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 00:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi, first post here. I've been researching our family trees for a few years now. My wife's maternal and paternal trees were fairly easy, going back to 1627 without too much effort. However my own paternal tree was a nightmare. My great grandfather had no birth or death records, only a marriage record and an entry in the 1901 census.

Then last week I had a breakthrough. I had been told that my great grandfather (Daniel Giverin) had spent time in prison. I turned up several penal records which stated the name was "Daniel Gavin or Giverin". This was a big lightbulb moment because on my great grandfathers marriage banns his name is written "Daniel Gavin", then the Gavin is ruled through and Giverin was written above.

Once I started searching for Gavin rather than Giverin, the facts came flooding in and they do tie in with the little information I had before. I've definitely got the right guy. So he was born Gavin in 1878, his fathers surname was Gavin. 1881 and 1891 census he's Gavin. Then in 1897 he gets married under the name Daniel Joseph Giverin. He's Giverin in the 1901 census, then in the 1911 census, he's in Dartmoor prison as Daniel Gavin. I'm 90% sure he died in Lancaster 1935 as Daniel Gavin.

Does anyone know why he might have changed his surname?  In the 1911 Dartmoor prison census, he is recorded as "weakminded" in the infirmity column. At the time that was another term for "imbecile". I wonder if that has anything to do with it? The thing is, the surname that he chose to adopt, the one I live with today, isn't a common surname but it is a surname of Irish origin. He didn't just make it up.

I'd love to hear the views of others on this. Thanks.

Quite a lot of info there, but not as to where he born and where were the census records were held - Salford as later mentioned is Manchester where a lot of Irish resided - Sheffield is South Yorkshire, so the 2 Daniel's are poles apart and need to be seperated from each other, so we know who is who, you were told your grt grandfather entertained prison, any clue as to why . . .

Maybe a baptism record to explain the Joseph, because if he was a Daniel Joseph by birth, then that would mean his name would also be Daniel Joseph on his any of his records from there on . . .

If the record writer can define the father of the groom as Giverin, then why not his son, maybe as simple as thinking it was Garvin and then as it is only at the wedding his father name would have come up and also written last, on realising his mistake, amended it forthwith . . .

To many Daniel Garvin's'/Giverin's here, spoiling the plot . . . (*-* )

Offline Millmoor

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 00:48 GMT (UK) »
Daniel Gavin was born in Sheffield in 1878- he is with family there in 1881. In 1891 he is in an industrial school in Chorlton, Manchester. The rest of the family are also in Manchester in 1891.


UK Lunacy Patients Register shows that Daniel was indeed admitted to the Lancaster Asylum in 1912. It looks as though he remained there until his death 14 Jan 1935.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline heywood

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 01:02 GMT (UK) »
Witnesses to Danielís marriage to Jane Southern were John and Annie Watts.

There is a marriage -1894 John Watts and Annie Gaven. Unfortunately it is not online.

Daniel had a Sister Annie. Perhaps it is her.

I canít see the Watts couple in censuses.
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Surname change..... why?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 27 November 18 01:32 GMT (UK) »
Think this is John and Annie Watts in 1901.

Tilt St Newton Heath

John Watts 36 Navvy
Ann Watts 26 wife born Sheffield
Daniel Watts son 5 b Salford
Mary Watts daughter 1 b Salford

Annie seems to have died 1904. John Watts subsequently remarried.


William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)