Lookup for illegitemate childs father or any link at all

[ali607]

I'm sorry to cause a mess! I have returned to genealogy after many years away with a bid to solve this mystery. It is the only piece left to slot into the puzzle. So...it is my only focus and I am determined to solve it. There are many strands to solving it and I am persuing all of them BUT by Christmas time I will have a DNA kit. So I am doing the preliminary work first so that I can get a sense for the pertinent names which may well come up as a result of cousins found through DNA.

The DNA is following though..hence the post on the DNA board too 

I'm sure there are many people who have that ONE major brickwall and try everything possible to solve it - especially when it's your own family name and you haven't even got it further than the 20th!!

I didnt know you could merge posts. I will ask.

Brigidmac - thanks for all your ideas. I have looked for a baptism record years ago but never found one. When I say looked, I mean scoured London...I will look into the fact that Jervis could be a surname. Still an awful coincidence that there is a Salter family with the Jarvis as a dad and a daughter called Ethel...in Fulham though. I accept that my Ethel isn't that ones daughter...but I do think there may be a connection there still.

Many thanks for all your invaluable work. Much appreciated!
Alison

[whiteout7]

I have a sneaky feeling - when you try and put all this toegtehr in your mind - that whilst we are assuming that Ethel was a youngster, that she actually might have been older (and therefore more likely to be with William Starns senior...or the pinkertons). This would also tie in with her being the Ethel born in 1878 with Jarvis as the dad...She would be 40. Still possible to have a baby at 40.

Jervis' daughter Ethel married Edward FREWEN in 1905.  In 1939 she has the correct day of birth but has given herself two extra years.

Debra 

British Archives suggests a W Salter as the father of Edith Lillian Salter that married Col Edward Laton Frewen in 1905

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/447e1bd5-24bd-4fd2-a73a-6dde8538f912

[ali607]

The combination of the name Desmond plus a Catholic orphanage makes me wonder about Irish heritage.

What's the basis of your hunch about "non-British" - is it based on e.g. family appearance, or something else?

Sorry I must have missed this post.

Non British - it is just a hunch and one of those intuitive feelings based on lots of little snippets of things throughout my life...and when you add them up...

Both me and my dad look very alike. We have very distinctive features. Neither of us look like our mothers, so the 'look' has to come from the paternal Salter line. We have quite 'squinty eyes' at the corners lol and the nose...the big nose! Where DID that come from!?? Many people have commented on our eyes looking a bit 'oriental'. On the other hand, I have for many years felt a strong connection with Eastern Europe. People over the years have too, mentioned that we have a slavic look. For as many generations that I know, there has always been a connection with Eastern Europe...women marrying Eastern European men. I have been touring those countries a few times and when I'm there, there just feels like some connection, like I belong there - I feel very at home out there particularly in Slovenia. It is very strong and I am a very intuitive person which has often turned up trumps - much to everyone's disbelief - in the past to be honest. Then the last few weeks when I was deciding to delve back into solving this gap in my tree, I have started seeing no end of references to Japan! Japanese connections popping up everywhere every day! I have always thought the connection was Eastern European or Russian perhaps, but now I'm not so sure! Anyway, I'm sure many people will think I am bonkers, but this kind of thing is very 'usual' for me and these hunches I have learnt, usually lead somewhere...

[Rosinish]

I'm unsure whether this will be of any help but...

avm mentioned an Irish connection with the names which actually switched on a light! 

If one considers an Irish accent & the surname Jarvis which would sound like Jervis (I've known of the surname in the past) then that could work?

Although not specifically known as an Irish surname in terms (it's Norman), they seem to have been in many places but the accent could be a clue?

I had a look for alternatives too, Jarvis, Jervis, Gervais (Ricky comes to mind) i.e. it may be worth digging as it is definitely a surname rather than a forename.

Annie

[brigidmac]

Dna will tell you straight away if you have a foreign grand father my mums DNA wa 24% European jewish ...so near quarter what you would expect and I have 11% and 51% Scots from my father

I do hope you solve it .

[ali607]

Thanks! Why do you think its definitely a surname?

[ali607]

Dna will tell you straight away if you have a foreign grand father my mums DNA wa 24% European jewish ...so near quarter what you would expect and I have 11% and 51% Scots from my father

I do hope you solve it .

Thanks for your encouragement! I know my grandad was born here but I have a feeling that his dad perhaps wasnt. SO you think that might turn up somehwere between 12%-25% from somewhere else then? I'm not sure how much to trust the ethnicity side of dna!

[ali607]

Rosinish - if there is an Irish connection, could you give me some clue where I should start looking??

[Rosinish]

Why do you think its definitely a surname?

I have come across Jarvis variant Jervis as a surname in the past.

When I said 'definitely a surname' it's likely anyone with Jervis as a forename/middle name has inherited it from the surname.

An e.g. 'Macaulay Culkin', Macaulay is more prominent as a surname than a forename.

A few searches on the name Jervis forename & surname & by far the name is more often used as a surname &/or a middle name rather than a forename.

When surnames are used as middle names it's usually an indication of a relationship/connection with that surname, often from the maternal line although not always.

Where there's illegitimacy, a surname as a middle name is often an indicator of the father again not always.

if there is an Irish connection, could you give me some clue where I should start looking??

The suggestion is only a possibility with the 'combined' names.

I wouldn't be looking in Ireland but closer to home.

I haven't read through all your threads but I would begin with finding out whether the names Desmond &/or Jervis have been used earlier on the maternal lines.

If not, I would be looking in the area where your ancestor was born, on census records for those names & Jervis whether surname or forename as a start.

Hope this helps to answer your questions?

Annie