Author Topic: Help with latin Description of medieval hall  (Read 263 times)

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« on: Tuesday 27 November 18 23:45 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone help me translate the following part of a description from a 1270 Close Roll?

"et eisdem Roberto et Marie reddidimus corpus aule et hertsted cum parvo solario et parvo stabulo propinquior! aule, et terciam partem gardini, et terciam partem magne grangie versus solem, que extenduntur ad undecim solidos et undecim denarios,"

I've had a stab at this and come up with:

"And the same Robert and Mary paid for the body of the hall and "hertsted", with the little Solar, the little stable which is closest to the hall, and the third part of the garden, and the third part of the great barn, towards the sun, valued at eleven shillings and eleven pence,"

I feel fairly confident with most of this translation, but have no clue as to what "Hertsted" refers to, and am not too certain about "versus solem."

I feel this could also be a reference to the Solar, which was a lord's chamber set above the hall or in a tower and so  could mean the Great barn is against the building with the Solar. Or perhaps this means the eastern third of the barn.

Any help would be wonderful.
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,699
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 00:36 GMT (UK) »
'And to the same Robert and Mary we have paid for the main Hall ...'

corpus aule = the whole body/complex of rooms that would make up the Hall area, including any entrance lobby, side-passages, ante-chambers etc.

versus = towards, against, opposite, facing. I would suggest here it means ‘facing the sun’ – presumably the best part of the barn for drying produce etc?

hertsted - I've no idea, but apparently an English word rather than Latin? Is the transcription certain? It needs more thought.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Drosybont

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 00:40 GMT (UK) »
There does seem to be a word "hearthstead" meaning hearth, fireplace etc, could this be what "hertsted" is?

Drosybont
Hotham, Guilliatt, Brown, Winter, Buck, Webster, Mortimore
Richards, Meredith, Gower, Davies, Todd, Westmacott, Hill
Mid C19 Cardiff and Haverfordwest, the Marychurch family.

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,699
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 00:42 GMT (UK) »
There does seem to be a word "hearthstead" meaning hearth, fireplace etc, could this be what "hertsted" is?

I was just reaching that conclusion myself -- probably the 'fireplace' area.

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 06:18 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much for all of your quick replies!

I double checked the original Calendar and it's definitely "hertsted" but english makes a lot of sense, and I think you're right about Hearthstead. I suppose that means there was no fireplace. Instead there was a hearth in the centre of the hall, the smoke escaping either through a louvre or a thatched roof.

I lean towards "towards the sun" referring to the eastern portion of a barn, as they only own a third of the barn. Does this seem silly?
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,699
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 28 November 18 08:56 GMT (UK) »
I lean towards "towards the sun" referring to the eastern portion of a barn, as they only own a third of the barn. Does this seem silly?

This is what I suggested above. But I'd hesitate to specify east or south. The opposite is versus umbram = 'in the shade', which might imply west or north.

ADDED - Latham (Revised Medieval Latin Word-List) gives versus solem as 'towards the south' and versus umbram as 'towards the north'.

Offline sunnylew

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 November 18 00:35 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much for your help.

I've been reading a lot of Maurice W Barley's work on the layouts of historic buildings, and it's exciting to have perhaps enough information to picture the Manor in Hethersett way back then.

I don't know if it makes it clearer in the Latin, but in the English version I've come up with, the value could be referring to what was paid by Robert and Mary for the Hall, or perhaps it just means that their proportion of the estate is valued at 11 shillings and 11 pence.

Does the Latin specify what that value refers to?

I ask because the background to this is that Mary was one of three co-heiresses, so I'm trying to figure out whether the entire estate was worth 33s 33d or perhaps 11s 11d was what they paid to buy out the shares of the other two sisters in the hall itself.
Buckenham and Variants in Norfolk and Suffolk.
Goodlad in Suffolk.
Palmer in Birmingham

Offline Bookbox

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,699
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Help with latin Description of medieval hall
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 November 18 09:36 GMT (UK) »
I don't know if it makes it clearer in the Latin, but in the English version I've come up with, the value could be referring to what was paid by Robert and Mary for the Hall, or perhaps it just means that their proportion of the estate is valued at 11 shillings and 11 pence.

The valuation of 11 shillings and 11 pence appears to relate only to the parts of the property described here – the Hall area, solar, stable and a third of the garden and barn (que extenduntur ad ... = ‘which are valued at ...').

The extract as posted states that the money had been paid to Robert and Mary, not by them, as I highlighted in my first reply above (#1). So on this occasion Robert and Mary appear to be the sellers, not the buyers.