Author Topic: DNA puzzle  (Read 608 times)

Offline Rosezi

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
DNA puzzle
« on: Thursday 29 November 18 21:11 GMT (UK) »
I have recently had one of those extremely high DNA matches, Ancestry says we are 4th cousins. This new person does not yet share any other DNA matches with my other 243 4th cousins or closer. Am I correct that we probably share 3x great grandparents? I wrote down all my 16 sets of 3x great-grandparents to try and work out a possible connection. So far my DNA matches have not fund any matches linked to my ancestors with the surname Clark who came over from Ireland. At the moment that is where I think we are linked. Has anyone else come across a very high DNA match with no clue where the connections is?
Banks - Wick, Caithness
Dunbar - Co Antrim-Birkenhead-Liverpool
Kemp - Woodnesborough,Kent-Liverpool
Long - Ireland-Liverpool
Clarke - Ireland-Liverpool
Weldon - Dublin-Birkenhead
Thomas - LLandysilio,Anglesey-Liverpool
Roberts -Denbighshire-Liverpool
Spain-Woodnesborough, Kent
Seed - Ballyculter, Co. Down
Graham-Ayrshire-Ballyculter-Liverpool

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 46,170
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 29 November 18 21:17 GMT (UK) »
What is the cM of the match?   

Added - I have a few 40-56 cM matches that I've not worked out the relationships yet.
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline uk4753

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 29 November 18 21:24 GMT (UK) »
I have a match at the 122cM level that showed up on MyHeritage.  When I looked at the match in the Chromosome Browser, most of the cMs were on the first chromosome...right in the middle of a pile-up area.  The attached tiny family tree was no help and I was unable to build the tree on Ancestry.

It appears as though that matching level is overstated.
 :)
Wiltshire: JONES, BANKS
Yorkshire: FEVERS, SCALES
Kent:  RUMLEY, NIGH
London:  HUGHES, NIGHTINGALE

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,182
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 29 November 18 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Yes. I have a 2nd to fourth cousin match (with another company) and I can't find our common ancestors. Most of my other matches are not as close as this, so it really stands out.  :)

A DNA match does not necessarily also mean a surname match, especially if there was an illegitimate child in the tree, or your match is on a female line.

I think that your common ancestor could be further than 3x great grandparents. I have a chart somewhere which I need to locate, and will post it later if no one steps in to help in the mean time.

Btw ... I suppose it is subjective, but I wouldn't class a 4th cousin estimate as a very high match.  ;)

Added: Ancestry allows you to upload your raw data to other sites, which may give you different or more "cousin" matches.

Offline uk4753

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 November 18 21:43 GMT (UK) »
Here is a link to Blaine Bettinger's chart.

https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

 :)
Wiltshire: JONES, BANKS
Yorkshire: FEVERS, SCALES
Kent:  RUMLEY, NIGH
London:  HUGHES, NIGHTINGALE

Offline sugarfizzle

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 969
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #5 on: Friday 30 November 18 16:20 GMT (UK) »

Btw ... I suppose it is subjective, but I wouldn't class a 4th cousin estimate as a very high match.  ;)


Ruskie, Ancestry gives matches sharing above 60 cM a confidence level of 'extremely high'. It then goes down to 'very high' between 45 cM and 59 cM.
Most matches at this level are easy to connect to, providing both of you have researched that far back and are keen to connect.

BTW, Rosezi, you should have 32 3G grandparents, not 16. You need to go back at least another generation.

Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline Rosezi

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #6 on: Friday 30 November 18 20:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the replies so far. The DNA match is 61cm extremely high. We have 16 sets of 3x great grandparents which equals 16 3x great grandmothers and 16 3x great-grandfathers - is this correct? Perhaps me and this DNA match share 4x great grandparents, she only has 82 people on her tree it will be a while before I find out the connection.
Banks - Wick, Caithness
Dunbar - Co Antrim-Birkenhead-Liverpool
Kemp - Woodnesborough,Kent-Liverpool
Long - Ireland-Liverpool
Clarke - Ireland-Liverpool
Weldon - Dublin-Birkenhead
Thomas - LLandysilio,Anglesey-Liverpool
Roberts -Denbighshire-Liverpool
Spain-Woodnesborough, Kent
Seed - Ballyculter, Co. Down
Graham-Ayrshire-Ballyculter-Liverpool

Online diplodicus

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • Remember, no great adventure started with salad.
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 December 18 21:22 GMT (UK) »
I think many people are disappointed with the lack of "connecivity" within their DNA matches. For me, the reality has been that there are very few matches that I can connect to my family tree and I have identified all my 3xgreat-grandparents!

Whilst the levels of probabilty quoted for a match to be a definite connection appear to be reasonable, I feel that the "4th to 6th cousin" indicator is misleading.

I have a 94cM match suggested to be a 3rd cousin who is actually a 1st cousin twice removed (and is the grandchild of a cousin I have just reconnected after sixty years). I know the small print suggests this as an alternative relationship, but it is not what most people seem to expect.

Looking at my top ten 4th cousin matches, I have positively identified only one commmon ancestor. Two more are descendants of a Welsh emigre to Utah whose name I know but whose connection I cannot find on paper even though he is from the same village as my maternal grandfather.

My most common shared match is with shared with  unidentifed "Ingram" ancestors who I can trace back in my tree to 1725. I share >20cm matches with twenty-nine other such individuals and can identify a common anceestor in only four of them!

Almost certainly, there will be a few "indiscretions". Add in some false positives and the probabilities dwindle quite rapidly.

Having painted what might seem like a bleak picture, I have found some very rewarding nuggets. Like most gold, they took an awful lot of digging.
Thomas, Davies, Jones, Walters, Daniel in Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion. That should narrow it down a bit!
Vincent: Fressingfield, Suffolk, Stockton & Sunderland.
Murtha/Murtaugh: Dundalk & Sunderland
Ingram: Cairnie by Huntly, Scotland then Abergavenny
Bardouleau: London - in memory of my stepmother Annie Rose née Bardouleau who put up with a lot from me.
gedmatch.com A006809
Kit uploaded to familytreedna.com B171041
Y-DNA R-M269 & mtDNA U5b1f

Offline roderickpaulin

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: DNA puzzle
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 11 December 18 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Shared DNA: 261 cM across 17 segments on my test
expected 2nd or 3rd cousin for my test and my mother's test
expected 3rd to 4th cousin for both of my sons

no clue who it is - no response to messages
Anderson-Black-Bone-Brahant-Burnside-Cameron-Cook-Curle-Ferriss-Gilchrist-Gilmour-Goodson-Hahn-Holmes-Hodge-Kepple-Klingensmith-Lane-Laurie-Lounsbury-Malott-MacDonald-M*cGregor-M*cKay-M*cKenzie-M*cLennan-McArthur-McMillan-Meiklejohn-Melvin-Miller-Moir-Murray-Murray-Olding-O'Neil-O'Neil-Pat*erson-Paulin-Pentland-Pidgeon-Plenderleith-Redfield-Robertson-Sexsmith-Shuel-Spark-Steel-Stewart-Thomson-Torrence-Urquhart-Wardrope-Weir-Wilson-Wright.
surnames in direct line - going back 8 generations