Author Topic: WWI - uniform identification/dating  (Read 551 times)

Offline JenClark

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #9 on: Friday 30 November 18 10:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tony & Jebber....that makes sense  ;)
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

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Online jim1

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #10 on: Friday 30 November 18 11:31 GMT (UK) »
Just to clarify the "British Star Medal" is actually called the 15 Star not to be confused with the British War medal.
It is only on this & the 14 Star that a theatre of war & date of entry is listed.
In order to qualify he would have had to have served in a theatre of war during that year but not necessarily "in action" although he certainly would have been.
He wouldn't have joined a Reserve Batt. he would have joined the Regt. & posted to a Training Reserve before being posted to whichever Batt. needed him.
Some men were posted to the (Special) Reserve Batt. & called up for service at a later date.
If a lad was found to be under age he would have been posted back to the UK & discharged.
If he had been wounded & discharged he wouldn't have been allowed to re-join (unless he used another name).
A common route for wounded men was to be re-classified at a level below A1 so not fit for frontline service
but fit for other duties so may have recovered well enough to be transferred to the AOC.
His service record will tell you what you need to know.
A couple of other points, the 3rd. R.Scots never went overseas so that's not the R.Scots Batt. he served in overseas. Only Regts. that he served overseas with will be listed on his Medal card.
As the man in photo 1 is A & SH are you sure it's the person you think it is?
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

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Offline JenClark

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #11 on: Friday 30 November 18 12:07 GMT (UK) »
Agreed jim1....if only I had his service record  ;)

I must admit, military rules and regulations confuse me a bit.....so you are saying that he could not have been invalided out/discharged say in 1916, recovered and re-enlisted in 1918 as his son told me? Or at least not if he used his real name?

In 1918 he was definitely in the 3rd Royal Scots as John George Rutherford (so his correct name)...I suppose that he could have lied about his name as well as his age in 1916....but his service with the HLI, Royal Scots and AOC are all on the medal card under his real name, so I suspect not. Maybe he wasn't invalided out, maybe he just came back to the UK to recouperate?

If I apply for his service record through the MOD (presuming that they have it) maybe I will need to give them all his regimental numbers and his actual date of birth, as who knows what he used for the records!!

If they don't have his records....I am not sure where to look  ::)
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Online jim1

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #12 on: Friday 30 November 18 14:15 GMT (UK) »
You only need to give his DOB although the form is confusing by asking for his number as well it's not the case.
His previous numbers will be of no use because with the re-organisation in 1920 all men were given a new 7 digit number.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline JenClark

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #13 on: Friday 30 November 18 21:23 GMT (UK) »
If Jack gave a false DOB, and I give the real one will they still be able to find him?

Is there anyway of finding out if he was still in the Army post 1920...before posting off the £30 to MOD that is? I am in Australia, and I can see this being a lengthy process via snail mail  :-\

I am wondering if I need to do this for my great grandfather Jim too....he was in the RAF until 1922, and the documents I have for him (discharge papers form 2067 & form 280, and RAF Airman's Service Record A.M. Form 175) only show movement details from 1918 onwards, nothing much about where he was during the actual war...though they do mention in one line that he served in France from 2 Jan 1917 to 11 Nov 1918 as was eligible for the British War Medal and Victory Medal. Would the MOD records cover all of his war time? He enlisted in 1915 in the RAMC, but I don't think he left the UK until his joined the RFC.

What do you think? Is it worth sending £30 for them to check Jim's record too?
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Online jim1

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 01 December 18 11:22 GMT (UK) »
If you think he may have lied about his DOB then you have no choice but to include his 3 numbers.
Whether his record will include previous service is a bit hit & miss.
He would have to have been dead for at least 25 years to get everything they have unless you are NOK.
The same applies to the RAF.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline JenClark

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 01 December 18 12:53 GMT (UK) »
Ok, thanks for your comments.

Jack and Jim both died in the 1950's so we are ok there, perhaps I will just have to pay the cash and keep my fingers crossed that their records are with the MOD and have some missing details for me.

Wish me luck  ;)
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Offline JenClark

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 02 December 18 00:03 GMT (UK) »
I have checked in with Jack's son, and he thinks that his dad was discharged and returned to Dundee in 1920....would his record still be with the MOD do you think?
Clark, Sommerlad, Bowden, Barrett, Griffey, Sayers, Bridge, Walters, Pollard, Capel, Dibble, James, Lingard, Mensforth, Watts, Rutherford, Stainton, Chatterton, Tubbs, Thompson, Fulton, Booth, Sellwood, Edwards, Pitcher, Creech, Johns, Phillips, Roberts, Keast, Tregonning, Mason, Lancefield, Ibberson, Green, Case, Cook, Dunham, Porter, Pope, Hall, Welsh, Hellefield, Warburton, Fletcher, Foster, Stiles, Tait, Nicoll, Sutherland, McIntyre, Cole, Neal, Ladlow, Bellamy, Castleton, Barker, Yuill

Online jim1

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Re: WWI - uniform identification/dating
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 02 December 18 11:10 GMT (UK) »
He went onto the Z list 22/10/19. So back to his civvy job but as a Reservist. Had he continued his service he would still have been a full timer. Back by 1920 sounds like he didn't.
I don't know if there's any kind of refund if the MOD don't have a service record. You'll have to ask.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/