Author Topic: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt  (Read 652 times)

Offline Alberbury

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The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« on: Saturday 01 December 18 21:18 GMT (UK) »
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NVxiAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=shropshire+a+falcon+banner+at+agincourt&source=bl&ots=Qg3GJ05eWP&sig=LdP_ThFG53zY6_CBFWxpb68sT6I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjw_fCeiszeAhWBTMAKHSZ9BAQQ6AEwBHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=shropshire%20a%20falcon%20banner%20at%20agincourt&f=false


The Battaile of Agincourt ... The Miseries of Queene Margarite ... Wife of ...
By Michael Drayton


Shropshire m a Falcon towring in the Ayre

Do we have any specialists who could post an image of this flag?

All Counties listed.

Salop Adams,Backhouse,Bailey,Carnal,Carter,Cartwright,Chambre, Chettoe,Cooper,Erpe,Fewtrell,Gardner,Greenhouse,Gwilliam,Humphrey,Jenks,Morrey,Otherton,Parry,Pickerall,Powell,Pugh,Reeves,Reynolds, Roberts,Rogers,Salter,Whittakers,Worrall,Wright,Yale

Mont.  Davies,Edwards,Hughes,Lewis,Maddox,Mapp,Pritchard
Almeley  Prichard
Battersea  Young
Brechin  Allan,Barrie,Hardie,Mathewson,Mitchell,Strachan,Watt
Chelsea  Coates,Smith
Cheshire  Penlington
Emneth  Bennington
Wisbech  Bell,Briggs,Willcock

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Offline Skoosh

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 01 December 18 22:28 GMT (UK) »
A Hundred Years on they were waving white flags!  ;D

Skoosh.

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 01 December 18 23:02 GMT (UK) »
There is a note applied to that piece of text:
e Expressing the loftinesse of the mountaines in that Shiere, on which many Hawkes were wont to airy.

I would suggest, therefore, that the banner would be a falcon on a blue background?
But banners would normally be flown by Kings, Princes, Dukes, Noblemen and Knights.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline MaecW

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 December 18 02:24 GMT (UK) »
Drayton wrote this as an "epic" poem some two hundred years after the event. He seems to have had a special interest in the topography of England and Wales so he has used "Poetic Licence" to ascribe banners to each of the counties of his time and to treat the Anglo-Welsh army of 1415 as if it were made up of contingents from each shire, which would have been the case with the Militia units of the Tudor period.
In reality of course the army consisted of the various barons and their followers and would have fought under their banners. (see the reference to the Fenwick Roll in the article on Agincourt at "www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/news-grants/news/item/119-the-battle-of-agincourt".
Baron (of Blackburn), Chadwick (Oswaldtwistle), Watkins (Swansea), Jones (x3 Swansea), Colton (Shropshire), Knight (Shropshire/Montgomery) , Bullen (Norfolk), White (Dorset)

Offline Alberbury

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Salop Adams,Backhouse,Bailey,Carnal,Carter,Cartwright,Chambre, Chettoe,Cooper,Erpe,Fewtrell,Gardner,Greenhouse,Gwilliam,Humphrey,Jenks,Morrey,Otherton,Parry,Pickerall,Powell,Pugh,Reeves,Reynolds, Roberts,Rogers,Salter,Whittakers,Worrall,Wright,Yale

Mont.  Davies,Edwards,Hughes,Lewis,Maddox,Mapp,Pritchard
Almeley  Prichard
Battersea  Young
Brechin  Allan,Barrie,Hardie,Mathewson,Mitchell,Strachan,Watt
Chelsea  Coates,Smith
Cheshire  Penlington
Emneth  Bennington
Wisbech  Bell,Briggs,Willcock

Offline KGarrad

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 02 December 18 10:14 GMT (UK) »
The Shropshire coat-of-arms date from 1895 (adopted 1896), and was based on the arms of the Borough of Shrewsbury with the addition of erminois (gold field with black "tail spots").

The flag of Shropshire, based on the coat-of-arms, was adopted in 2012.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Alberbury

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 02 December 18 10:38 GMT (UK) »
The Shropshire coat-of-arms date from 1895 (adopted 1896), and was based on the arms of the Borough of Shrewsbury with the addition of erminois (gold field with black "tail spots").

The flag of Shropshire, based on the coat-of-arms, was adopted in 2012.


1415
Salop Adams,Backhouse,Bailey,Carnal,Carter,Cartwright,Chambre, Chettoe,Cooper,Erpe,Fewtrell,Gardner,Greenhouse,Gwilliam,Humphrey,Jenks,Morrey,Otherton,Parry,Pickerall,Powell,Pugh,Reeves,Reynolds, Roberts,Rogers,Salter,Whittakers,Worrall,Wright,Yale

Mont.  Davies,Edwards,Hughes,Lewis,Maddox,Mapp,Pritchard
Almeley  Prichard
Battersea  Young
Brechin  Allan,Barrie,Hardie,Mathewson,Mitchell,Strachan,Watt
Chelsea  Coates,Smith
Cheshire  Penlington
Emneth  Bennington
Wisbech  Bell,Briggs,Willcock

Offline MaecW

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02 December 18 10:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alberbury,
In reply to KGarrad's explanation of the Shropshire flag you make the cryptic observation "1415". Do you mean you disagree with his dates or that you still think the flag described by Drayton existed in 1415 ?
Can you be clearer on what information you want ?

Maec
Baron (of Blackburn), Chadwick (Oswaldtwistle), Watkins (Swansea), Jones (x3 Swansea), Colton (Shropshire), Knight (Shropshire/Montgomery) , Bullen (Norfolk), White (Dorset)

Offline Alberbury

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Re: The Shropshire banner at Agincourt
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02 December 18 11:06 GMT (UK) »
http://www.medievalsoldier.org/about/agincourt-600/the-english-army-in-1415/english-army-table/

English Army Table

Thomas Corbet  Esquire

Arms of the Corbet baronets of Moreton Corbet, based on the arms of the medieval Corbets.[1] The raven was used by most branches of the Corbet family, whose name means "little crow."[2]


Salop Adams,Backhouse,Bailey,Carnal,Carter,Cartwright,Chambre, Chettoe,Cooper,Erpe,Fewtrell,Gardner,Greenhouse,Gwilliam,Humphrey,Jenks,Morrey,Otherton,Parry,Pickerall,Powell,Pugh,Reeves,Reynolds, Roberts,Rogers,Salter,Whittakers,Worrall,Wright,Yale

Mont.  Davies,Edwards,Hughes,Lewis,Maddox,Mapp,Pritchard
Almeley  Prichard
Battersea  Young
Brechin  Allan,Barrie,Hardie,Mathewson,Mitchell,Strachan,Watt
Chelsea  Coates,Smith
Cheshire  Penlington
Emneth  Bennington
Wisbech  Bell,Briggs,Willcock