Author Topic: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?  (Read 458 times)

Offline Wexflyer

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What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« on: Saturday 08 December 18 23:49 GMT (UK) »
Those of you who have ever looked at the Probate and Administration calendars will have noticed that there is always an accompanying valuation for the estate of the deceased. My question is, what was and was not included in the estate, for tax purposes?  Over the years I have seen some valuations look anomalously high, others low. From these, I have formed the impression that landed property was not included or was exempt, while stocks or inventory in commercial businesses was included. But that is just an impression. Can anyone set out for sure what was/was not subject to probate tax?
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

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Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 December 18 01:38 GMT (UK) »
Most of the post 1901 Probate files in PRONI contain a detailed form that summarises the estate. You can see from it what items were listed (and so presumably potentially liable to be taxed). It lists stocks & shares, cash, loans, debts, personal property, particulars of land & buildings, goodwill (ie in a business), business profits and so on. Rented land and owned land are both listed.

If you are unfamiliar with the form, I can send you some examples, if you send me a pm with your e-mail address. (They are too big to attach on this board).

Elwyn

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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 December 18 08:38 GMT (UK) »
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Offline Feichin

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 December 18 23:30 GMT (UK) »

It has been a while since I dealt with old inheritance material so I'm a bit rusty on it. As with all taxation law it can be a minefield.

Very briefly, Estate Duty was payable on estates over a certain value in Ireland from the 1890's to 1975 when Capital Acquisitions Tax took over.

Prior to the Administration of Estates Act in 1959 only the personal property of the deceased was given in the summary of the valuation of the estate, even though the duty was also payable on the real property.

As with modern taxes certain reliefs were available which reduced the value of the estate when the duty was being calculated, one such reduced the value of agricultural land.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 22:39 GMT (UK) »
Prior to the Administration of Estates Act in 1959 only the personal property of the deceased was given in the summary of the valuation of the estate, even though the duty was also payable on the real property.
Ah, now that is getting interesting. I obtained the probate documentation for a great-great-uncle of mine, which was very extensive - 30+ pages, in addition to the will. But there was no mention at all of his very extensive, multiple properties, which left me wondering if property was taxed at all, or exempt, hence my original query.

So, the key question becomes, how was real property valued, and where is the documentation of this? (I would love to know just how extensive my great-great-uncles property ownership was!).

Thanks to all who responded - very useful!
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline Feichin

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 19 December 18 22:59 GMT (UK) »
If a deceased estate was probated and if he or she owned or had an interest in any real or leasehold property it will be referred to in the Inland Revenue Affidavit. Details of the property will be shown on the Schedule of Buildings and Lands attached to the Inland Revenue Affidavit.

For details on the how property was valued for Estate Duty purposes see the Finance Act of 1894.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 19 December 18 23:12 GMT (UK) »
If a deceased estate was probated and if he or she owned or had an interest in any real or leasehold property it will be referred to in the Inland Revenue Affidavit. Details of the property will be shown on the Schedule of Buildings and Lands attached to the Inland Revenue Affidavit.

For details on the how property was valued for Estate Duty purposes see the Finance Act of 1894.

The documentation set I obtained from the National Archives does not include any details on real property that I can see - and it is certain that he had extensive property.  Not sure that it matters, but there are no "Inland Revenue" forms, this being a probate in SE/IFS. Will certainly take a look at that Finance Act.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline Feichin

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Re: What Was Subject to Probate Tax?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 December 18 16:06 GMT (UK) »
A grant of probate or administration could not be extracted without filing a fully completed Inland Revenue Affidavit certified by the Revenue Commissioners.