Ruth E Ryland Bigglewade

[mosquitodz592]

Got it, sorry Keyboard.

Does "Findmypast" give full details on their civil marriage search - Is viewing the image, the actual certificate ?

Apologies if its an obvious question .

[keyboard86]

  Which marriage, Civil/Register Office actual images of marriages are not online
Keyboard86

[mosquitodz592]

It was William Mumford's to Ruth E Ryland 1851 - thought an image meant a copy of the certificate.
I will just have to wait for the post 

[keyboard86]

Hi again, in 1871 Raynham & Sarah Stewart have an Eliza Mumford 15 Niece b Middlesex, daughter by the looks of it of William & Ruth E, mmn Ryland
Sarah Mumford aged 15 Not born in County could be the Scholar at High Street, Huntingdon in 1841
Census ref HO107/455/ 4/20 / 32
Keyboard86

[cuffie81]

Hi again, in 1871 Raynham & Sarah Stewart have an Eliza Mumford 15 Niece b Middlesex, daughter by the looks of it of William & Ruth E, mmn Ryland
Keyboard86

Eliza isn't with her parents William and Ruth in 1871 either, who are in Islington.
Ref RG10; Piece 306; Folio 35; Page 21


There is another Eliza Mumford born in Hackney c1856 but I think we can rule her out. Which means, as Keyboard has subtly pointed out, we've got a connection from William Mumford to John Mumford.


Just for completeness, I think this is the other Eliza and family, who we can rule out:

1854 Q2 Marriage: John Mumford & Elizabeth Ann Ison; Hackney; 01b; 435
1856 Q3 Birth: John Mumford (mmn: Ison); Hackney; 01b; 311
1857 Q4 Birth: Eliza Mumford (mmn: Ison); Hackney; 01b; 318
1860 Q1 Birth: Sophia Ann Mumford (mmn: Ison); Hackney; 01b; 351
1861 Q4 Birth: Elizabeth Ann Mumford (mmn: Ison); Hackney; 01b; 344
1863 Q4 Birth: John Mumford (mmn: Ison); Hackney; 01b; 353

Marriage
married: 08 May 1854; West Hackney; banns
groom: John Mumford; fa; bach; coal dealer; West Hackney
bride: Elizabeth Ann Ison; fa; spin; -; West Hackney
grooms father: John Mumford, coal dealer
brides father: James Ison, florist
witnesses: James Ison, Elizabeth Ison

1861 Census - Hackney
John and Elizabeth Ann Mumford, with daughters Eliza and Sophia (both born Homerton)
Ref RG09; Piece 160; Folio 23; Page 40

1871 Census - Hackney
Joseph and Elizabeth Fox, with granddaughters Eliza and Sophia Mumford (both born Homerton)
Ref RG10; Piece 330; Folio 63; Page 55

[cuffie81]

As an aside, I was curious what Manor House, Shacklewell, was like and there's quite a bit to be found, including a number of images. It's quite fancy.

In the 1850s John Mumford is listed in the electoral registers at address 'Shacklewell Green, Hackney' and Manor House looks to be just off of Shacklewell Green.


OS Map 1870
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103312958#zoom=6&lat=1819&lon=9933&layers=BT

Landed families of Britain and Ireland: (122) Tyssen-Amherst (later Cecil) of Didlington Hall and Foulden Hall, Barons Amherst of Hackney
http://landedfamilies.blogspot.com/2014/05/122-tyssen-amherst-later-cecil-of.html

The Old Manor House, Hackney, 1800 . Shacklewell House, the manor... News Photo | Getty Images
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-old-manor-house-hackney-1800-shacklewell-house-the-news-photo/515870784

[keyboard86]

Hi again, wondered about the John Phillpott Mumford mentioned in the Will, he was born 23rd November 1814 and baptised 12th January 1815 St Mary le Bow Father John Mother Christiana

Probate for John Phillpott Mumford Death 22nd June 1868 Southampton  Probate 17th July 1868 to Henry & William the brothers of 36, Bread Street, occ Lace Merchants
Keyboard86

[mosquitodz592]

  I cannot thank you both enough, for your time - wonderful info.

I have just found this morning, after rummaging through some family papers by one of my father's cousins which I had forgotten.
 "In 1878 Thomas Clarke married Eliza Mumford, daughter of William Mumford. The latter's father, John Mumford, had founded a lace business in London in 1813. The business was sold in 1870, and William Mumford, whose wife died in 1873, had soon afterwards settled in Manchester with his five children ..." written in 1953.

Cuffie - Shacklewell manor - What a gaff ! It has been down hill since that place  Hackney's changed a bit too .

But.....
William's birth date 1824 supported by his census declarations of being born in London - fine; and maybe his christening in Huntingdon -okay BUT naming of father as William not John.
Perhaps a mistake or another William - best ignored ? His christening records lost in the blitz ?

His mother Christiana Philpott is from Huntingdon - good; but there are two Christianas' born in Huntingdon 1790 and 1793 to John and Sarah - a second daughter renamed in memory of a lost child  ?

Sorry more questions ....

[mosquitodz592]

Hi Keyboard
I think you are definitely right about John Philpott Mumford.