Cowan Family - Troon

[Debra]

Hello again Joe,

Well my Smith family really are turning out to be a problem.  You said that you were having trouble tying them together, well, I have searched the scotlands people website and have begun to think that Agnes Smith b abt 1864 was child of Robert Smith and Agnes Dick.  I have found a death record for a Margaret Smith, husbands name Robert, maiden name Dick.  Now Robert and Agnes Smith had a daughter Agnes in 1865, but I haven't yet found the birth records.  Marriage records for the period have only one Smith/Dick marriage in the area, that is for Robert and Agnes not James and Margaret date of marriage, 9th June 1859 at the same church as Agnes Smith married John Cowan in 1888, St. Quivox. 

When Agnes Smith married John Cowan in 1888, James/Robert was already deceased, but the address for Agnes/Margaret on the marriage certificate is Prestwick Road, Newton, Ayr
Perhaps you can tie them all together with this new information.   Here's hoping anyway, I am totally lost by now.

Thanks again for your time,
Deb

[Debra]

Just wanted to post a separate message thanking you so very much for all of the effort you have gone to for me looking up all of those details for me

Deb

[runningbear]

hi deb,

have you come across the death cert yet of your agnes cowan?

wonder what parentage is mentioned?

Joe

[Debra]

 Hi Joe,

Yes I have Agnes Cowan's death certificate.  The family emigrated to Australia in 1915 and Agnes died in Brisbane  bur 28.04.1943.  I have been told by the Queensland registry office that the details  that go into the death certificates is gleaned from the family members memories.   If there is a mistake made by the family in giving the info, then the certificates will reflect this.   

I personally have had a certificate that stated that a John Hall had a father  named Charles and since John had a son Charles, amongst others I had no reason to doubt the info.  When I finally found marriage records for John Hall his father was actually named George, the name of another son.  I contacted the Registry office who relayed the family info story  and to believe the UK marriage record before the death certificate.

Clear as mud?

Thanks again,
Deb

[Gadget]

Hi Deb

Joe has asked me to have a look at this thread 

Could I ask whether you have a birth cert for Agnes Smith? and what is the birthplace that she gives in the censuses, Joe? It's unclear .

Regards

Gadget

[Debra]

Hi Gadget,

My Smith family is a bit of a puzzle.   I have a marriage certificate for my gg grandparents John Cowan and Agnes Smith.  Married 1888 at St Quivox.  On the marriage certificate, I have Agnes Smith's parents as James Smith nailmaker decd and Margaret nee Dick living at Prestwick Road, Newton Ayrshire.  I have searched the Scotlands people website for their marriage and the only one that I can find for the area and same time frame is a Robert Smith marrying an Agnes Dick also marrying at St Quivox.  Later I searched for death records for Agnes Smith and didn't find one in that name but found one for a Margaret Smith nee Dick who had husband listed as a Robert Smith.  Now, Robert Smith and Agnes Dick had a daughter that I have found on the igi born 1865 but haven't yet found that birth amongst the hundreds of Agnes Smith births I have so far sorted through on the Scotland's people website.

So that is my dilema, are James and Robert the same person and is Margaret really Agnes?  There were lots of Agnes' in the family line even through to today.

Haven't yet searched for death records for Robert  but have looked briefly for James with no success.  Must have been some time between 1864/5 and 1888 when he was decd on marriage cert.

Hoping you can assist me with my quandry.

Deb

[Debra]

Gadget,
Forgot to tell you that Agnes and John Cowan emigrated to Australia in 1915 and although I have her death cert ( which for the life of me I can't find at the moment) but she was bur in Brisbane 28.04.1943.  I have been in contact with the Queensland Registry Office who tell me that the info on death cert is gleaned from the family at the time of the death and if there are any mistakes given, then the cert will reflect the info given by the family.  When I spoke to the Registry office people they told me that the UK marriage cert would be more reliable and to believe the info on the Uk cert first.
Deb
Deb

[Gadget]

Hi Deb

This is all very strange. I have been looking for a birth registration for Agnes (smith or Dickie)  and so far can find nothing in Troon, which is her consistent birthplace on the later censuses.

I have looked at the 1871 census and can only come up with 2 Agnes - one (born circa 1865, Troon)  with parents Archibald and Mary, living Troon. Archibald was a labourer. The second, sadly, was a pauper at Cuninghame poorhouse, Irvine, born. circa 1863, Stewarton.

Did you find anything about her on the 1881, Joe?

Gadget



John Smith

[runningbear]

hi deb, gadget

at the moment i am going down the line of andrew(son of hector/brother of john) looking for any clues.

**andrew married mary guthrie 8/8/1861 monkton

1871 census- crown inn, monkton and prestwick

john guthrie...age 78
andrew cowan...age 34...labourer
mary cowan...age 32
mary cowan...age 10...born 25/10/1861 coylton
hector cowan...age 9...born 6/10/1862 coylton
john guthrie cowan...age 7...born 2/12/1864 monkton
andrew cowan...age 5...born 9/3/1867 monkton
robert cowan...age 2...born 1/9/1869 monkton

1881 census- 3 mossvale lane, paisley

andrew...age 46...labourer
mary...age 43
(mary as you know is with her grandparents)
(hector is away from home)
john...age 17...flesher
andrew...age 14
robert...age 12
jane reid cowan...age 9...born 16/1/1872 monkton
margaret...age 6...born monkton
jessie...age 2...born paisley

1881- census- humeston farm, maybole, (farmer adam hannah)

hector...age 18...farm labourer

1891 census- 7 mossvale street, paisley

andrew...age 56...gardener
mary...age 52
mary...age 27...domestic servant
(hector now married)
(john now married)
andrew...age 23...labourer
robert...age 21...joiner
jane...age 19...weaver in factory
margaret...age 17...millworker
jessie...age 11
barbara...age 9...born paisley

1891 census- 2 albert street, paisley

john...age 25...coal merchant
margaret...age 23
janet...age 3 months

1891 census- danduff cottage house, maybole

hector...age 28...farm labourer
elizabeth...age 27
mary...age 4
elizabeth...age 2

1901 census- 13 wardrop street, paisley

andrew...age 63...gardner
mary...age 62
andrew...age 28...labourer
barbara...age 19...paper mill worker

1901 census- burnside cottage, maybole

hector...age 38...farm labourer
elizabeth...age 37
mary...age 14...farm servant
elizabeth...age 12
robert...age 8
andrew...age 6
jessie...age 4
hector...age 2

1901 census- 7 mossvale street, paisley

john...age 36...labourer
margaret...age 33...born kirkcaldy
janet...age 10
mary...age 9
helen...age 7
margaret...age 6
john...age 4
david...age 2


1901 census- 8 clavering street, paisley

robert...age 29...joiner
rachel...age 26
mary...age 2
margaret...age 4 months


would you believe after all that, still no clues......

was oor agnes smith born out of wedlock!!!!


Joe