Author Topic: Very very large BRICK WALL  (Read 2415 times)

Offline josey

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 13 December 18 16:27 GMT (UK) »
To resurrect a query from other thread by dee-jay
quote "I had a crack at locating the daughter of the household where Ada was located in 1891:  'Isabella' aged 30 born Staffs Kingswinford but I'm not certain her surname has been transcribed accurately as I read the first letter 'P' - not the 'V'ANHOOK of FindMyPast;  neither could I trace the Celia CHESTER, cook."

RG12; Piece: 876; Folio: 59; Page: 30
There is something odd on this page. I too read the first letter as 'P'; the previous entry is an Esther Annie Sims age 21 who is living at 3 Lynchfield Terrace, single, servant. Next door at No 4 is Isabella [looks like Paxhook or Parhook] single, 30, no occupation, daur - should she be 'Head'? - but indexed on ancestry as Sims. If she was a lady of means perhaps Ada went abroad with her - although I know OP has said she has checked travel/migration records. Without knowing Isabella's real surname that's difficult to check. I can find no suitable births of an Isabella registered in Stourbridge [for Kingswinford] around 1860.
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

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Offline AnnieP

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 13 December 18 16:38 GMT (UK) »
I had thought of that myself but as you say it's very difficult to read Isabella's surname. There is a possibility of a departure from So'ton on board the SS St Louis on 5 Aug 1899 to New York. The name transcribed is Miss A C Mott, ticket no.6478 along with a Miss C Morgan with the same number. Looking at it closely it could well be Miss A G Moth and it does say that she was single. This is probably just wishful thinking on my part!

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Offline josey

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 13 December 18 16:40 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked for this lady in the 1900 US census?
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline JenB

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 13 December 18 17:52 GMT (UK) »
To resurrect a query from other thread by dee-jay
quote "I had a crack at locating the daughter of the household where Ada was located in 1891:  'Isabella' aged 30 born Staffs Kingswinford but I'm not certain her surname has been transcribed accurately as I read the first letter 'P' - not the 'V'ANHOOK of FindMyPast;  neither could I trace the Celia CHESTER, cook."

RG12; Piece: 876; Folio: 59; Page: 30
There is something odd on this page. I too read the first letter as 'P'; the previous entry is an Esther Annie Sims age 21 who is living at 3 Lynchfield Terrace, single, servant. Next door at No 4 is Isabella [looks like Paxhook or Parhook] single, 30, no occupation, daur - should she be 'Head'? - but indexed on ancestry as Sims. If she was a lady of means perhaps Ada went abroad with her - although I know OP has said she has checked travel/migration records. Without knowing Isabella's real surname that's difficult to check. I can find no suitable births of an Isabella registered in Stourbridge [for Kingswinford] around 1860.

Following up this line of thought, the full address in 1891 is Lynchfield Terrace, Waverley Road. In 1901 there is a 43 year old Isabella Grazebrook living at 63 Waverley Road, with her mother (RG 13 / 990 / 31 / 9)   Isabella's birthplace is Staffordshire. Tracking her back, her birthplace in 1881 is Kingswinford . So I wonder if this is the 1891 Isabella, hopelessly mistranscribed by the enumerator in 1891?

In any event, if it is the same Isabella, there is no-one called Ada in the household in 1901  ::)
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Offline josey

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 13 December 18 18:40 GMT (UK) »
Looks very likely JenB, well done. But a dead end it seems - still everything found, however negative, is another avenue followed & ruled out. 
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline AnnieP

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #14 on: Friday 14 December 18 07:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you everyone for all this research and well done at last discovering that elusive surname of Isabella. I've checked briefly on the US 1900 census but need to have a more thorough search. As yet nothing seems to be showing but again she could of course have married.

Offline bearkat

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #15 on: Friday 14 December 18 08:55 GMT (UK) »
In 1891 Ada is a servant to Isabella Vanhook.

Familysearch has this birth entry

Carley I VANHOOK mother Ada MOUTHS in 1831 in Pulaski, Kentucky gender 9  :-\

with Ada being born in 1872 she's be too old to have a child in 1831 but there's 2 unusual names ....

(I think I'm on totally the wrong track with this one  >:( )
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
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Offline jonw65

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #16 on: Friday 14 December 18 11:09 GMT (UK) »
Portsea Rate Book for 1891 has
Occupier - Mary Grazebrook
Owner - Morley
Property - 4 Lynchford Terrace (Waverley Rd)

It is Lynchford on the census (rather than Lynchfield)

There is a possibility of a departure from So'ton on board the SS St Louis on 5 Aug 1899 to New York. The name transcribed is Miss A C Mott, ticket no.6478 along with a Miss C Morgan with the same number. Looking at it closely it could well be Miss A G Moth and it does say that she was single.

It does looks like A C Mott
The ship was the St Paul (rather than St Louis)
Unfortunately at the New York end I think that the passenger list for the SS St Paul may be incomplete.

Offline JenB

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Re: Very very large BRICK WALL
« Reply #17 on: Friday 14 December 18 11:19 GMT (UK) »
Portsea Rate Book for 1891 has
Occupier - Mary Grazebrook
Owner - Morley
Property - 4 Lynchford Terrace (Waverley Rd)

It is Lynchford on the census (rather than Lynchfield)

Just to tie up the loose end, in 1891 Isabella Grazebrook's mother, Mary Ann, is a visitor at a household in Esher RG 12 / 614 / 25/ 14
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