Author Topic: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.  (Read 239 times)

Offline ALAMO2008

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Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« on: Saturday 15 December 18 17:27 GMT (UK) »
I have a relative Roscoe John Francis born Liverpool June Quarter 1870 Mother =Laura Sperrin
Father = Edward John  Francis
Roscoe Married Elizabeth Hughin  25/12/1896 at St.Mary's Kirkdale.
Found him on Crew Lists 1906  & 1907  on Cunard  RMS Carmania living at 15c 20 h Dryden Street. Liverpool
On 1911 Census at that address he states he is a Fireman.
Possibly in action in Sept 1914  on same ship sinking German Cap Trafalgar.
His Whereabouts are really unknown 1911 to 1917
Found his Probate which states he Died at Sea 25 January 1917 and left his Widow 20
The Family have his name on a Family Headstone at Ford R C Cemetery but he is not in the grave. presume lost at sea.
Relatives claim it was in the Mediterranean.
Anyone able to find his Medal Card at which I am useless.
Or can anyone throw light on the ship and action on that death date.?
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

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Offline MaxD

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Re: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 December 18 19:42 GMT (UK) »
He was a greaser aboard the "Phrygia" on  25 Jan 1917 when she was in collision with SS Norman Monarch close to the coast of Italy just to the west of San Remo. (this developed from the Deaths at sea register).

I can't find his name in the Merchant Navy medals.
MaxD

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Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

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Offline MaxD

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Re: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 December 18 19:56 GMT (UK) »
From newspapers of the time:

Phrygia was on voyage from Swansea to Genoa with a general cargo, Norman Monarch in ballast from Savona to Gibraltar when they collided resulting in an explosion and fire on Phrygia.   Nine lives were lost on the Phrygia.  Norman Monarch was held responsible for the collision in the subsequent court case.

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 16 December 18 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant MadD.
I felt if there was any info out there on his Death. you and this Forum would find it better than me.
Thanks for Time and Knowledge.
Alamo
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Online seaweed

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Re: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 10:43 GMT (UK) »
You wrote "His Whereabouts are really unknown 1911 to 1917"
No central personal records of Merchant seamen were kept from 1857 until 1913. Records for the period of the First World War have been destroyed.
If he was at sea, 1911-1917 you should be able to find some information, such as his last address, by back tracking via crew agreements. This process would necessitate spending a day or two at the National Archives. If you are prepared to consider this course of action, let me know and I will endeavour to explain the procedure. There are also High Court of Admiralty records concerning the collision.

I found a R J Francis, a fireman, home address 144 Burlington? Street, Liverpool, on board the Glasgow registered ship BELGRAVIAN in various 1915 crew agreements which are on line. Only problem is his age is given as 41, 42, 43. Bare in mind, Merchant seamen regularly lied about their age. See what you think.
http://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/crew-member?crew_member_search[lastName]=francis&crew_member_search[firstName]=r&crew_member_search

Cannot find any medals for him. Not surprising, as he died in 1917. I am not sure of the protocol to obtain his entitlement but others may give you an answer.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Merchant Navy action ? 25/01/1917 Help please.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 12:38 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Seaweed.
That's him per his 1917 Probate.
Used your link to view his Sailings in the Med. in 1914/15 brilliant to see those records.
Will try to do as you suggest in the New Year.
Thanks again.
Alamo
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY