Author Topic: Missing medal roll entry?  (Read 267 times)

Offline andrewalston

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Missing medal roll entry?
« on: Monday 17 December 18 10:18 GMT (UK) »
James Griffin was born in Kent in October 1888. By the 1911 census, he was in India as a private in the 1st Battalion Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry.

I know that the battalion was involved in the siege of Kut-al-Amara, and it is likely that he was part of that campaign.

In 1919, he married, in India, giving his occupation as Quarter Master Sergeant, 1st Ox & Bucks, but his name as William James Griffin. This is the only record I can find mentioning this added name. His birth and death are registered a plain "James Griffin" and he was known in the family as Jim.

He stayed in the army until the 1930s, so no available service record online.

However, I can't find any mention of James in the Great War Medal Rolls. There is a "19487 James C Griffin", but his service record survives and shows that he is from a completely different family.

Did British regiments who served only outside Europe receive the usual medals? If so, why would he not appear in the rolls?
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 17 December 18 10:54 GMT (UK) »
Does he appear in the British medal card archives?
Do you have a service number on his marriage certificate?

Is this him?
Medal card of Griffin, Victor William James
Corps   Regiment No   Rank
Royal Horse Artillery   79384   Davadar
Royal Garrison Artillery   224860   Corporal

Why I say this is a Daffadar is an Indian Army NCO rank roughly equivalent to a Sergeant, so this one seems like a likely candidate for you man?

Amended (not this one as he is Victor William James Grffin)
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Offline andrewalston

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 17 December 18 11:08 GMT (UK) »
No mention on the marriage entry, unfortunately.

It seems unlikely that he would transfer to an artillery regiment. In any case, to me the rank on those medal records reads as "Driver". Also the birth for Victor was registered in Somerset in 1897.

The obituary for James' son Lieutenant Colonel Neville G Griffin MBE refers to James as being in the Ox. & Bucks in the Great War, and later serving with the Indian Army Ordnance Corps.
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.

Offline jim1

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 17 December 18 12:10 GMT (UK) »
I can only answer the question that yes he did qualify for the BW & V Medals as India was classed as a theatre of war (Asiatic).
There must be a reason & only his service record will give a possible explanation.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline cath151

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 17 December 18 16:40 GMT (UK) »
There is a service record ( not much info) for a James Griffin born Chatham c 1889
8053  3rd Bn The Buffs , attested 18.04.1906 and then joined Oxford Light Infantry  19.07.1906
Parents John and Alice
Siblings...John E, Lizzie E and Maggie,  38 Old Road Chatham
Not a lot more info unfortunately

Cathy
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline jim1

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 17 December 18 17:47 GMT (UK) »
That's a good find Cathy. If it's him & he elected to do 6 & 6 he would have been on reserve in 1914.
His Batt. was already overseas at that time so he may have remained in the UK in some role or another until the end of hostilities.
In 1916 the law changed & the Army could have retained him after his 12 years expired.
All guesswork of course.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Jomot

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 02:34 GMT (UK) »
There is a James Griffen who served as 8255 in the 1st Ox & Bucks, which I think indicates a joining date of c1906, but first entered a theatre of war (5a) 5 Dec 1914. 

It looks like he then transferred to the Worcester Regiment as 75198 and is noted as a Colour Sergeant. 

Whether he could transfer back to his original regiment after the armistice I've no idea.
GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham. North Yorkshire. MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  JACKSON: East Yorks, North Yorks, Durham. TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline jim1

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 18 December 18 10:57 GMT (UK) »
He could have transferred back post war.
By 1918 he was "time expired" but was probably retained until the end of hostilities.
After the war the Army was keen to retain men & offered a 25 bounty to men who extended their service.
He could have elected to return to the Ox & Bucks. If it's him of course.
It looks like he's the same man Cathy put up.
A quick calculation gives an attestation date of July 1906 for 8255.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline andrewalston

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Re: Missing medal roll entry?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 19 December 18 16:43 GMT (UK) »
Excellent!

Just because he was in the Ox & Bucks before and after doesn't mean he has to be during as well!

Thanks a lot!
Looking at ALSTON in south Ribble area, ALSTEAD and DONBAVAND/DUNBABIN etc. everywhere, HOWCROFT and MARSH in Bolton and Westhoughton, PICKERING in the Whitehaven area.

Census information is Crown Copyright. See www.nationalarchives.gov.uk for details.